From: Richard Knoppow on

"G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13nu7g7ikfj9be3(a)corp.supernews.com...
> Ok, I just developed my first 3 rolls of film at home, and
> except for a little bit of dust on the last roll the
> results are excellent. I'll sporadically be developing
> more over the next couple of months.
>
> I'm using Rodinal, Arista's indicator stop bath, Arista's
> Universal non-hardening fixer, and Kentflo.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. The Rodinal says undiluted it will last 6 months. Can
> I be safe to assume it will last that long?
>
> Also, with the Rodinal I've been developing only one roll
> per mix because I'm new at this. With Accufine, the
> previous developer I used, I would do a couple of rolls in
> one canister before dumping back into my storage container
> and replenishing. And after 3 months at the same
> developing time my negs were a little light.
>
> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
>
> 2. The stop is the least of my worries, right? It should
> be ok for a couple dozen rolls over the next couple of
> months?
>
> 3. What's the expected longevity of the fixer?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg

Rodinal has a very long life. It can turn nearly black
and still work. The working solution should be used only
once and discarded. While the used developer will still
develop it will be hard to predict the results. However, if
the amount of solution is reasonably large you can probably
get a second roll by increasing time by about 20%.

You can re-use the stop bath in a single session as long
as it remains acid (the indicator will show this) but its
not good practice to save it between sessions.

Fixer has relatively low capacity for complete fixing and
complete fixing is important to the lifetime of the
developed film. The rule of thumb is to discard the fixer
when _clearing_ time has doubled but IMO this is stretching
things a bit. Clearing time is measured by fixing out a
scrap of the film you are working with. Soak the sample in
water for a couple of minutes before testing it because wet
film fixes at a different rate than dry film. Test a sample
when the fixer is first mixed and before its used. Note the
time it takes for the film to become completely clear. The
rule of thumb is to fix for twice this time and to discard
the bath than the clearing time doubles.

Unless you work with very small quantities of film its
best to use two successive fixing baths. The film or paper
is fixed in each bath for half the normal fixing time. The
first bath does most of the work leaving the second bath
relatively fresh so it can clean up any unfixed halide.
After the first bath becomes exhausted its dumped. The
second bath then becomes the first bath and a new second
bath is mixed. Kodak has full instructions about this in
their Darkroom Dataguide booklet.

In addition to your processing method outlined above I
would add the use of a wash aid. I prefer Kodak Hypo
Clearing Agent because Kodak has published the details of
its contents and experimental evidence that it works. I
believe that Ilford's wash aid is essentially identical. Teh
wash aid will reduce film washing time from about 30 minutes
to about 5 minutes. The wash aid can also remove some
otherwise insoluble fixer reaction products.

Use the wetting agent after washing as you are doing.
Because the wetting agent can collect gelatin from the film
and will support mold it should not be saved between
sessions. It can be used for more than one roll of film but
should be discarded after you finish working.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk(a)ix.netcom.com


Similar advice applies to paper development.


From: pico on

"G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13nvrllg1dduu00(a)corp.supernews.com...

> Right, but I'm still too worried that I'll screw up 5 rolls at a time by
> doing something really stupid like popping the top off of my tank while
> agitating. Once I get on a roll I'll switch to my 3 roll tank.

:) Well understood. Enjoy.


From: George Mastellone on
pico wrote:
> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:REHfj.3070$El5.969(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into 1 oz (30 ml)
>> glass amber bottles.
>
> Yep! The bottles with the expressed cap that displaces the last bit of
> Rodinal. Air free. Done that way, Rodinal will last forever.
>
>
I remember back a LONG time ago, Rodinal came in an amber bottle
with a rubber stopper under the cap. Since my father was a doctor, I
got a hold of a large syringe and needle and was able to extract and
measure small amounts of developer without ever adding any air to the
bottle.

I guess that can't be done anymore :)
From: G.T. on
Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
> Fixer has relatively low capacity for complete fixing and
> complete fixing is important to the lifetime of the
> developed film. The rule of thumb is to discard the fixer
> when _clearing_ time has doubled but IMO this is stretching
> things a bit. Clearing time is measured by fixing out a
> scrap of the film you are working with. Soak the sample in
> water for a couple of minutes before testing it because wet
> film fixes at a different rate than dry film. Test a sample
> when the fixer is first mixed and before its used. Note the
> time it takes for the film to become completely clear. The
> rule of thumb is to fix for twice this time and to discard
> the bath than the clearing time doubles.

Thanks Richard. I'll have to do this. I was just using the times
suggested on the fixer bottle.

From reading your post and Lawrence's I can test by snipping off the
leader of a 35mm roll? Just drop it in some fixer and time how long it
takes to clear?

I also have a roll of 120 Tri-X 400 that I opened just to practice
loading a reel with.

>
> Unless you work with very small quantities of film its
> best to use two successive fixing baths. The film or paper
> is fixed in each bath for half the normal fixing time. The
> first bath does most of the work leaving the second bath
> relatively fresh so it can clean up any unfixed halide.
> After the first bath becomes exhausted its dumped. The
> second bath then becomes the first bath and a new second
> bath is mixed. Kodak has full instructions about this in
> their Darkroom Dataguide booklet.
>
> In addition to your processing method outlined above I
> would add the use of a wash aid. I prefer Kodak Hypo
> Clearing Agent because Kodak has published the details of
> its contents and experimental evidence that it works. I
> believe that Ilford's wash aid is essentially identical. Teh
> wash aid will reduce film washing time from about 30 minutes
> to about 5 minutes. The wash aid can also remove some
> otherwise insoluble fixer reaction products.
>
> Use the wetting agent after washing as you are doing.
> Because the wetting agent can collect gelatin from the film
> and will support mold it should not be saved between
> sessions. It can be used for more than one roll of film but
> should be discarded after you finish working.

So in this workflow it would be develop, stop, fix, hypo, wash, and
wetting agent? In class we washed prints in hypo but not film.

Oh, and regarding grain, my instructor actually suggested that I use
Xtol for now. But during class he told us that we'll get larger, more
noticeable grain if we using something like Rodinal/HC-110. That's why
I'm currently playing with it.

The bigger issue is that I'm getting used to developing at home but
there is no way I'm going to be able to print at home. Does anyone have
any current suggestions on finding a rental darkroom in LA these days?
I'm currently signed up for another B&W class in Burbank, but I'm not
going to have time to these next few months to actually do any
assignments, I just want to print stuff from the last 4 months.

I was thinking about calling up Translight Colors. Anyone heard good or
bad?

Thanks,
Greg



From: Ken Hart on

"G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13o36j825t8r910(a)corp.supernews.com...
snip
> So in this workflow it would be develop, stop, fix, hypo, wash, and
> wetting agent? In class we washed prints in hypo but not film.
>
Just for the record. "fixer" and "hypo" are basically the same thing. I
realize that when you say "hypo", you mean "hypo clearing agent"(sometimes
called "HCA"). The purpose of the hypo clearing agent is to remove the hypo
or fixer from the film or print.

Back in the 'good old days' when prints were actually paper and not
resin-coated plastic stuff, the paper print would soak up a lot of
chemicals. You needed to wash a print for perhaps an hour or so to remove
all the fixer from the porous paper. (Ricard K., please feel free to jump in
and correct me or elaborate-- I'm certain you are far more knowledgeable on
this!). A hypo clearing agent would neutralize the hypo (or fixer), so that
a shorter wash time (perhaps 30 minutes?) would suffice.

Film, being a non-porous material (or certainly less porous than fiber-based
prints) doesn't soak up as much chemistry, so a hypo clearing agent is not
as important. If it's critical to you that your negatives last to the next
millenia, than you may want to use it anyway...!

As for not being able to print at home, there are many people who make do
with printing in a bathroom. Some use a cart (Rubbermaid? Check office
supply or food service supply companies.) to hold their enlarger and store
their chems, trays, and stuff so they can wheel everything into the bathroom
for a session, then wheel it all into a closet for storage. You can put
velcro around the window frame and stick a piece of faric or cardboard over
the window. There is also a gentleman who espouses 'one-tray' processing.
I've never tried it myself, but perhaps for the temporary darkroom, it may
be the answer. Maybe someone here can supply the link to his website, or to
websites for temporary darkrooms. Using the kitchen is also a possibility,
but some people don't like that idea because of the possibility of food
being contaminated-- but for darkroom work, cleanliness is important, so
wipe up those chem spills!
For me, you can take away my permanent darkrooms when you can pry the
staticmaster brush from my cold, dead fingers!


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