From: Rod Smith on
In article <13o36j825t8r910(a)corp.supernews.com>,
"G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> writes:
>
> Oh, and regarding grain, my instructor actually suggested that I use
> Xtol for now. But during class he told us that we'll get larger, more
> noticeable grain if we using something like Rodinal/HC-110. That's why
> I'm currently playing with it.

Experimenting with products is fine; however, since you're just starting
out I'd like to caution you against going wild with all the films and
developers that are out there. You'll learn most quickly if you stick to
just one or two films and one developer while you learn. If you try a new
film/developer combination with every roll or two, you won't learn how the
two work together or be able to optimize your developing techniques. Learn
your basic techniques first and THEN start playing with different
developers.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith(a)rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
From: Rod Smith on
In article <13o51kk6nv13m33(a)corp.supernews.com>,
"G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> writes:
>
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
>> G.T. wrote:
>>
>>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
>>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
>>
>> Since the steps after printing can be done in daylight with no special
>> equipment, you may not want to use the drum for them.
>
> Ok, at what step can I switch to daylight equipment? Do I have to stop
> and fix a little before switching to daylight? Or can I do the stop and
> fix in daylight?

I suspect that there's some miscommunication going on here -- or maybe I'm
just misreading/misjudging peoples' posts.

When using the traditional open trays for B&W enlarging, the dry-side
printing, developer, stop bath, and beginning of fixer steps should be
done in the dark or under safelight conditions. Normal room lights can be
turned on once the print's been in the fixer for a few seconds. (You might
even be able to get away with this with the print in the stop bath, but
I've not tried that.)

When using a print processing drum, the room lights can be turned on as
soon as the print is in the drum and the drum is sealed up but before you
begin processing the print. The developing, stopping, fixing, and washing
can all be done in normal room light, just like film processing in a film
tank. (The print is of course still in the dark, just sealed inside its
drum.)

Drums are frequently used for color processing, but they work fine for
B&W. Some online retailers might list them under color paper processing
equipment. Another option is known as an "orbital processor." This is
basically a covered tray with provision to pour chemicals in and out.

I've heard of people using two-room setups for print processing. For
instance, you could set up an enlarger in a bedroom or a large closet and
then, using a print processing drum, do the actual processing in a
bathroom, kitchen, or laundry room. Personally, I think I'd prefer a
compact bathroom setup, using the bathtub as a place to hold the trays and
putting the enlarger on a cart or balancing it on the toilet or sink.
Vertical slot processors can also be handy in space-constrained
situations, although they tend to be pricey.

Concerning light-proofing a room, note that this is easier if you're
willing to restrict your darkroom sessions to night. A light leak that
would fog paper in the day might be harmless at night.

If space is limited, you'll need to select an enlarger carefully. A few
models fold up, sometimes into suitcase-style boxes. These could be handy
in cramped quarters. With a little more storage space, an enlarger on a
wheeled cart might be better.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith(a)rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
From: G.T. on

"Rod Smith" <rodsmith(a)nessus.rodsbooks.com> wrote in message
news:vs3b55-5n7.ln1(a)speaker.rodsbooks.com...
> In article <REHfj.3070$El5.969(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM(a)sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>> The rule of thumb with fixers is in room light to toss a piece of
>> undeveloped film scrap into the fixer - for 35mm, the leader/trailer of
>> the
>> roll is ideal. Time how long it takes for the film to clear. Fix for
>> double that time. When the fixing period extends more than 10-12 minutes
>> or
>> so, time for mix new fixer. Keep the fixer in a dark, cool place.
>
> Note that fixing and clearing times vary greatly, both from one film to
> another and from one fixer to another. Personally, I generally use rapid
> fixers (based on ammonium thiosulfate rather than sodium thiosulfate),
> which fix films in about two minutes. In fact, the fixers I use often
> clear films in 30 seconds or less. The general rule of thumb is to fix for
> twice the clearing times (some people say three times for T-grain films),
> but I err on the side of the longer time if I get, say, a 30-second fixing
> time and the product documentation recommends a 2-minute time.
>
> A 10-12 minute fixing time sounds very long to me, but you might well get
> into that range toward the end of the useful life of a fixer based on
> sodium thiosulfate.

I forgot to ask one question. What is the effect of fixing for too long?

Greg


From: G.T. on

"Rod Smith" <rodsmith(a)nessus.rodsbooks.com> wrote in message
news:pc5b55-5n7.ln1(a)speaker.rodsbooks.com...
> In article <13o51kk6nv13m33(a)corp.supernews.com>,
> "G.T." <getnews1(a)dslextreme.com> writes:
>>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
>>> G.T. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer,
>>>> fill
>>>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>>>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
>>>
>>> Since the steps after printing can be done in daylight with no special
>>> equipment, you may not want to use the drum for them.
>>
>> Ok, at what step can I switch to daylight equipment? Do I have to stop
>> and fix a little before switching to daylight? Or can I do the stop and
>> fix in daylight?
>
> I suspect that there's some miscommunication going on here -- or maybe I'm
> just misreading/misjudging peoples' posts.
>
> When using the traditional open trays for B&W enlarging, the dry-side
> printing, developer, stop bath, and beginning of fixer steps should be
> done in the dark or under safelight conditions. Normal room lights can be
> turned on once the print's been in the fixer for a few seconds. (You might
> even be able to get away with this with the print in the stop bath, but
> I've not tried that.)
>
> When using a print processing drum, the room lights can be turned on as
> soon as the print is in the drum and the drum is sealed up but before you
> begin processing the print. The developing, stopping, fixing, and washing
> can all be done in normal room light, just like film processing in a film
> tank. (The print is of course still in the dark, just sealed inside its
> drum.)

I don't know if that all was explicitly stated before but I did understand
those points.

>
> Drums are frequently used for color processing, but they work fine for
> B&W. Some online retailers might list them under color paper processing
> equipment. Another option is known as an "orbital processor." This is
> basically a covered tray with provision to pour chemicals in and out.
>

With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to agitate
it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?

> I've heard of people using two-room setups for print processing. For
> instance, you could set up an enlarger in a bedroom or a large closet and
> then, using a print processing drum, do the actual processing in a
> bathroom, kitchen, or laundry room. Personally, I think I'd prefer a
> compact bathroom setup, using the bathtub as a place to hold the trays and
> putting the enlarger on a cart or balancing it on the toilet or sink.
> Vertical slot processors can also be handy in space-constrained
> situations, although they tend to be pricey.
>
> Concerning light-proofing a room, note that this is easier if you're
> willing to restrict your darkroom sessions to night. A light leak that
> would fog paper in the day might be harmless at night.
>
> If space is limited, you'll need to select an enlarger carefully. A few
> models fold up, sometimes into suitcase-style boxes. These could be handy
> in cramped quarters. With a little more storage space, an enlarger on a
> wheeled cart might be better.

Thanks.

Greg


From: David Nebenzahl on
On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:

> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to agitate
> it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?

I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.

I got my drum processor (Beseler Unicolor, made for color 8x10 prints,
but I use it for 4x5 film processing) with the companion motor base for
$cheap on eBay. Stuff like that comes up there all the time.

And contrary to what I've heard here, I've never gotten any processing
streaks on film from the machine agitation.

It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
whole tray.