From: SMS on
John Turco wrote:

> Due to their
> size, AA cells aren't the ideal solution, in subcompact cameras.
> That is, digicams can be made even smaller, using Li-Ion packs.

I thought I saw one sub-compact that used AA or AAA cells (besides the
Oregon Scientific el-cheapo DS6200), but I can't remember which camera
it was. The problem is that two AAA cells would not last very long
compared to an equivalent size Li-Ion.

In any case, I'm battery agnostic, I have cameras that use AA cells, and
I have cameras that use Li-Ion packs. The purpose of the web site was to
correct a lot of the misinformation that a couple of posters seem intent
on spreading for whatever reason.

I agree with David, Li-Ion is a preference, for the reasons I have
detailed, but it's not an obsession. Some of the advantages of Li-Ion
are major (cold weather performance, capacity gauges, and convenience of
charging and swapping), and some are minor, but still worth covering,
and many issues are just by-products of how manufacturers implement
certain design features in their efforts to make cameras more cheaply.

As you pointed out with the size issue it goes further than the actual
battery, a lot of it relates to what is practical and cost effective to
build with specific power sources.

Steve
http://batterydata.com

From: ASAAR on
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:57:24 -0500, John Turco wrote:

> Making the world safe for Ni-MH, are you? Carry on, soldier! <g>
>
> Although, Steven does seem right, about one thing: Due to their
> size, AA cells aren't the ideal solution, in subcompact cameras.
>
> That is, digicams can be made even smaller, using Li-Ion packs.

No doubt, Li-Ion is good for making extremely small devices,
especially mp3 players, and tiny spy cameras if they need to be as
small as or smaller than Kodak's WWII hide-in-a-matchbox type you
recently mentioned.

Looking back through old messages, I see that some folk have an
appreciation for very small cameras. The ones mentioned use a pair
of AAA batteries and range from the very inexpensive and tiny
Praktica Mini (90grams, 79x40x27mm ) and Sony's U10/U20/U30 to the
quite expensive and somewhat larger Ricoh GR Digital(170grams,
107x58x25mm). Praktica also makes a DCZ 3.2 S, which uses 2 AA
batteries but is still quite small (110grams, 96x56x38mm). Here are
some pictures of, and taken by the Praktica Mini, posted about a
year ago by Mike Henley :
http://i2.tinypic.com/s6nlfd.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/s6nbsk.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/s6soqq.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/sec2hf.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/t6auyt.jpg

Here's the DCZ 3.2 S which has a link for a PDF file of its spec's :
http://www.goldline-usa.com/camera3.php?table=praktica&ID=45

From: Ron Hunter on
John Turco wrote:
> ASAAR wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 02:46:11 -0500, John Turco wrote:
>>
>>>> I've pointed out your spin and mistruths quite often to all of
>>>> your points, and not long after I started doing so, you either
>>>> stopped reading my replies or are faking it. The question should be
>>>> "Can you handle the truth?". Don't think so.
>>>
>>> Hello, ASAAR:
>>>
>>> As I'm sure you were quite aware, already, Steven M. Sharf killfiled
>>> you, long ago. Hence, your many subsequent responses to him, are merely
>>> for the purported benefit of this newsgroup's members, no? :-)
>> So he says. But his killfile entries come and go, and he recently
>> replied that perhaps he'd remove that kf entry. I don't respond to
>> all of his replies, but it's good to correct at least the more
>> ridiculous of his misstatements. There are always ng newbies
>> popping up that aren't aware of his outrageously biased record. And
>> as I said, he may also be faking it, as fakirs are wont to do. :)
>>
>> http://www.answers.com/topic/fakir
>
>
> Hello, ASAAR:
>
> Making the world safe for Ni-MH, are you? Carry on, soldier! <g>
>
> Although, Steven does seem right, about one thing: Due to their
> size, AA cells aren't the ideal solution, in subcompact cameras.
>
> That is, digicams can be made even smaller, using Li-Ion packs.
>
>
> Cordially,
> John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>

They (li-ion) certainly do have a size advantage, as well as a weight
advantage, for smaller cameras, and good operating temperature range. I
guess with all that, one really can't complain too much about the higher
cost.
From: John Turco on
ASAAR wrote:
>
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 01:30:20 -0500, John Turco wrote:
>
> > SMS wrote:
> > . . .
> >> Almost no NiMH cameras support in camera charging, and the additional
> >> complications of having to deal with replaceable batteries make the use
> >> of a battery gauge IC impractical.
> > . . .
> >
> > Actually, every current Kodak model features "in camera charging"
> > of batteries (whether Ni-MH or Li-Ion), when attached to a compatible
> > "EasyShare" dock.
>
> Can Kodak's Li-Ion batteries be charged both in camera and also
> externally? One of the negatives of Fuji's F10/F20/F30 is that the
> system is designed, IIRC, to only have the ability to charge
> batteries while they're in the camera. So when the battery needs to
> be recharged, the camera is unavailable for use. This seems to me
> to be a far greater drawback than having a camera that is not able
> to charge NiMH batteries internally.


Hello, ASAAR:

Yes, indeed, and my P850 "super zoom" even included a charger. (It's
optional, with my V603 subcompact, which happens to take a different
Li-Ion battery.)


Cordially,
John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>
From: John Bean on
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:50:57 -0700, SMS
<scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:

>John Turco wrote:
>
>> Due to their
>> size, AA cells aren't the ideal solution, in subcompact cameras.
>> That is, digicams can be made even smaller, using Li-Ion packs.
>
>I thought I saw one sub-compact that used AA or AAA cells (besides the
>Oregon Scientific el-cheapo DS6200), but I can't remember which camera
>it was. The problem is that two AAA cells would not last very long
>compared to an equivalent size Li-Ion.

The Sony U-series used 2AAA cells. Battery life is fine
despite its supplied cells being quite low capacity by NiMh
standards.

--
John Bean