From: ASAAR on
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:16:40 -0700, SMS wrote:

>> You can get reasonably accurate capacity readings based on voltage alone,
>
> Not on NiMH batteries. The majority of the discharge cycle is in an
> extremely narrow voltage range of about 0.1V (between 1.1 and 1.2
> volts), see "http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips7/nimh_tests.gif" for a
> good graph of it. That's why you have to use another method, such as
> used by that battery tester.

As usual you can't report accurately on what that graph shows or
you're misreporting it to better conform with what you want it to
show. The bulk of the energy is delivered between 1.00 and 1.27
volts, *not* between 1.1 and 1.2 volts. Using your narrow 0.1 volt
range would account for only about 60% of the energy delivered by
the NiMH cells. And as you've done before, this is a chart that
leaves much to the imagination. It isn't identified as to its
source or accuracy. There are four different curves which represent
something but are only identified by the logos "Hosfelt #1" . . .
"Hosfelt #4". And going back to the website's root, girr.org, it's
only identified as "The Schreyer Family Page", and contains some Mac
software, a review of the Roomba vacuum cleaner, brief instructions
on how to cook a turkey in 90 minutes, and some other family stuff.
Not a bad little website, but where's the data behind the chart? Or
the person that gathered and charted it?

When Energizer or Duracell provides data sheets, you get with the
charts lots of data. Loads, temperatures, currents, time, internal
resistance, etc. This one had so little it almost begs you to use
it for any purpose you want. It's also quite old, as you can gather
from the fact that 1,300 mAh batteries were used. At least that's
one datum that wasn't omitted. Where do you find this stuff?

From: SMS on
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

> I assume you are talking about your 20D grip ;-) Again, I think that
> peformance is an issue because your camera doesn't know it is getting power
> from NiMH rather than LiIon. There is a voltage difference that is more
> significant in series.

Right. In reality it's not a big deal. With Li-Ion batteries in the grip
the battery level indicator actually indicates the amount of charge
left, since the voltage declines pretty linearly as the battery
discharges. With NiMH, it always indicates the same level, over 65% or
so, until the batteries are exhausted and the voltage drops off rapidly
(no fancy circuitry to do a pulse load test).

I bet on the Nikon it's just accounting for the voltage differences
between 1.5V AAs, 1.2V AAs, or Li-Ion, and not providing any more
information via a more sophisticated load test.
From: ASAAR on
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:29:20 -0700, a very sad SMS, who reads
newsgroups with one eye closed, said:

>> I assume you are talking about your 20D grip ;-) Again, I think that
>> peformance is an issue because your camera doesn't know it is getting power
>> from NiMH rather than LiIon. There is a voltage difference that is more
>> significant in series.
>
> Right. In reality it's not a big deal. With Li-Ion batteries in the grip
> the battery level indicator actually indicates the amount of charge
> left, since the voltage declines pretty linearly as the battery
> discharges. With NiMH, it always indicates the same level, over 65% or
> so, until the batteries are exhausted and the voltage drops off rapidly
> (no fancy circuitry to do a pulse load test).

There's a name for guys like you. Charlatan. And another.
Fabricator. And yet another. Snake Oil peddler. Far from always
indicating the same level, NiMH cells decline in use from just under
1.3 volts to just above 1.0 volts. For proof, just take a look at
any battery manufacturer's data sheets and charts. Even the crude
homemade chart that you posted a link to yesterday shows this.


> I bet on the Nikon it's just accounting for the voltage differences
> between 1.5V AAs, 1.2V AAs, or Li-Ion, and not providing any more
> information via a more sophisticated load test.

I'll bet it's a rare day when you know what you're talking about.
Or perhaps I should say I'll bet it's a rare day when you say what
you really believe.

From: GMAN on
In article <1181510880.476780.152600(a)r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, cassia <cassiadenton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jun 10, 3:07 pm, Daytona <junk721...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 Jun, 22:05, Daytona <junk721...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Since I don't use my camera that often,
>> >which is the best type of battery to use ?
>>
>> The camera is a basic point and shoot Canon A70.
>
>These are just AA right? So far, I've had the BEST experience with the
>Duracell Ultra Digital batteries. I use them in my flash (the SB800)
>and the recycle time and life has been dramatically better. For future
>reference, never buy a camera that takes anything other that a lithium
>ion battery; you'll be much happier. Good luck.
>
Some of us get over 1000 photos with just one set of AA NiMh batteries on our
S3 IS cameras.

I like Lithium ion but they are very unforgiving of lack of use.
From: GMAN on
In article <466EA8C0.4010004(a)geemail.com>, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>Ron Hunter wrote:
>> Daytona wrote:
>>> On 10 Jun, 22:28, cassia <cassiaden...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> These are just AA right? So far, I've had the BEST experience with the
>>>> Duracell Ultra Digital batteries. I use them in my flash (the SB800)
>>>> and the recycle time and life has been dramatically better. For future
>>>> reference, never buy a camera that takes anything other that a lithium
>>>> ion battery; you'll be much happier. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Yes they're AA, I've just checked and the camera can take NiMH, but I
>>> don't know about lithium - are they better ?
>>>
>>> Daytona
>>>
>> There are lithium AA batteries, and there are litiium ion batteries. The
>> lithium ion batteries are a nominal 3.7 volts, and are not suitable for
>> use in cameras made for AA batteries, but there are lithium disposables
>> which are, and they work very will in most equipment. There are
>> advantages to lithium ion batteries, such as low weight, and long use
>> life, and slow self-discharge rates, cold weather performance, etc., but
>> availability is not good since most of them are proprietary.
>
>While it's true that you can't buy them in "the middle of nowhere," most
>Li-Ion packs have multiple sources, including after-market brands that
>are not expensive. The advantages of Li-Ion batteries for cameras are
>overwhelming, except it costs the manufacturer more to provide a battery
>and charger at time of sale, so the cheaper cameras use AAs.

The canon S3 IS is not a cheap camera