From: David Dyer-Bennet on
Is any company offering removal of the Bayer filter from a Nikon-mount
DSLR? Particularly the D40? (I suspect it may not be feasible due to
the stacking order and how the microlenses, AA, IR cut, and Bayer are
combined, and other issues, and I haven't been able to Google up much,
but I thought asking might still turn something up.) I'm interested in
a high-sensitivity B&W camera for low-light situations.
From: Charles Schuler on

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b(a)dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:461fb9b6$0$952$8046368a(a)newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Is any company offering removal of the Bayer filter from a Nikon-mount
> DSLR? Particularly the D40? (I suspect it may not be feasible due to the
> stacking order and how the microlenses, AA, IR cut, and Bayer are
> combined, and other issues, and I haven't been able to Google up much, but
> I thought asking might still turn something up.) I'm interested in a
> high-sensitivity B&W camera for low-light situations.

Interesting idea. Would one necessarily lose the micro-lenses as well and
would that mitigate against removal? I don't really know, by the way. Here
is an interesting link that might be helpful:
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/digitalimaging/cmosimagesensors.html


From: David Dyer-Bennet on
Charles Schuler wrote:
> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b(a)dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:461fb9b6$0$952$8046368a(a)newsreader.iphouse.net...
>> Is any company offering removal of the Bayer filter from a Nikon-mount
>> DSLR? Particularly the D40? (I suspect it may not be feasible due to the
>> stacking order and how the microlenses, AA, IR cut, and Bayer are
>> combined, and other issues, and I haven't been able to Google up much, but
>> I thought asking might still turn something up.) I'm interested in a
>> high-sensitivity B&W camera for low-light situations.
>
> Interesting idea. Would one necessarily lose the micro-lenses as well and
> would that mitigate against removal? I don't really know, by the way. Here
> is an interesting link that might be helpful:
> http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/digitalimaging/cmosimagesensors.html

Interesting, and had some detail I didn't know, thanks!

Doesn't mention where the IR-block filter is in all that, either, or the
optical anti-aliasing filter. I suspect it varies considerably.

I suspect that the microlenses would be a major loss; but I suppose
trying it with various lenses would be interesting. The worst
complaints are about ultra-wide lenses, and I don't use them in the
conditions I want this camera for. (I'm not *at all* sure that I'm
prepared (mostly financially) to be the first experimenter here :-)).

From: Charles Schuler on

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b(a)dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:461fee3b$0$952$8046368a(a)newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Charles Schuler wrote:
>> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b(a)dd-b.net> wrote in message
>> news:461fb9b6$0$952$8046368a(a)newsreader.iphouse.net...
>>> Is any company offering removal of the Bayer filter from a Nikon-mount
>>> DSLR? Particularly the D40? (I suspect it may not be feasible due to
>>> the stacking order and how the microlenses, AA, IR cut, and Bayer are
>>> combined, and other issues, and I haven't been able to Google up much,
>>> but I thought asking might still turn something up.) I'm interested in
>>> a high-sensitivity B&W camera for low-light situations.
>>
>> Interesting idea. Would one necessarily lose the micro-lenses as well
>> and would that mitigate against removal? I don't really know, by the
>> way. Here is an interesting link that might be helpful:
>> http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/digitalimaging/cmosimagesensors.html
>
> Interesting, and had some detail I didn't know, thanks!
>
> Doesn't mention where the IR-block filter is in all that, either, or the
> optical anti-aliasing filter. I suspect it varies considerably.
>
> I suspect that the microlenses would be a major loss; but I suppose trying
> it with various lenses would be interesting. The worst complaints are
> about ultra-wide lenses, and I don't use them in the conditions I want
> this camera for. (I'm not *at all* sure that I'm prepared (mostly
> financially) to be the first experimenter here :-)).

The stacking technology of the various filters is an interesting issue. The
IR filter must be near the top, at least in some cases, since one can find
sources such as this one:
http://www.abe.msstate.edu/~jwooten/camera/lense.html

Now that digital cameras are enjoying rather brisk sales, I wonder if
specialized models are near. Canon's astral model is but one indicator:
http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Astral-Specialized-Canon-Coming-to-US-in-July.htm

You want a B&W camera with the best possible sensitivity, and you are not
alone. I'd guess it is coming soon.


From: cgiorgio on

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b(a)dd-b.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:461fb9b6$0$952$8046368a(a)newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Is any company offering removal of the Bayer filter from a Nikon-mount
> DSLR? Particularly the D40? (I suspect it may not be feasible due to the
> stacking order and how the microlenses, AA, IR cut, and Bayer are
> combined, and other issues, and I haven't been able to Google up much, but
> I thought asking might still turn something up.) I'm interested in a
> high-sensitivity B&W camera for low-light situations.

Certainly nobody will do that, Also you could easily buy a couple of D1 MK 3
's plus assorted lenses for the cost of doing that. It would be a more
realistic approach to cool the sensor with liquid nitrogen (and float the
camera with dry nitrogen to keep water out) to achieve a higher signal /
noise ratio. A full frame sensor camera or a larger than full frame camera
(like Mamyia) would be the easiest solution for achieving improved signal to
noise ratio.

In production multiple sensors are processed on a wafer (4", 6" or 200 mm)
and only separated after they have run through all the processing steps
(except for bonding).

Even if a pin compatible black and white version of the original sensor
would exist, it would need custom developed image processing (ASIC's and
firmware) because processing black and white pixels can not use the same
weighting used as for processing the signals from a Bayer matrix sensor.
Recording in RAW and using a customized external converter program to obtain
an image from that would be slightly easier - but probably not for any *.nef
files, as these are not true RAW but store pre processed data. The camera
display would also be pretty useless, but I did not have that on my film
cameras and could still take pictures.