From: Rich on
On Sep 26, 7:24 pm, Robert Coe <b...(a)1776.COM> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:53:55 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg<ozcvgt...(a)sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> : Robert Coe <b...(a)1776.COM> wrote:
> :
> : > It seems to me that if it lives up to its specs, the 7D raises serious
> : > questions about the future of FF.
> :
> : Really?  Such as "is MPix everything?" and "If you need more
> : MPix, why not upscale your image?"?
> :
> : > It halves the MP gap between the 50D and the
> : > 5D2 at a price $1000 below the 5D2,
> :
> : I'm using a 20D.  I don't feel much of a gap.  Sure, many P&S
> : currently out-pixel me.  They don't out-image me.
> :
> : Limits?  Of course a 20D has limits.  Some of them are clearly
> : felt, but they mostly relate to low light capability for me.
> : Too few pixels?  Never felt that as a problem.
> :
> : Yes, I lust after a 5D2, because the pixel size is the same but
> : the sensor has been much improved.  For me, give me larger pixels,
> : not more.
> :
> : > and it preserves a user's investment in
> : > APS-C lenses.
> :
> : Kit lenses and their ilk aren't much of an investment, and those
> : who made investments other than the 10-22mm *knew* they would
> : stay with crop frames.  Me, I like to keep my way to FF open.
> :
> : > Unless the price of FF cameras comes down quickly and
> : > dramatically, I suspect that many serious amateurs who might have gone FF
> : > sooner rather than later may simply rethink the whole concept.
> :
> : Pixel fixation speaking?
> :
> : Building a FF with the 7D pixel size would yield 46MPix.
> : Always remember that the tricks you can do with crop sensors
> : work just as well on FF.
>
> My 50D is less than a year old, so I have no dog in this hunt. But if I were
> in your shoes, with a once excellent APS-C camera that's gone a bit long in
> the tooth, I think I might be more likely to replace it with a 7D than with a
> 5D2.
>
> But that wasn't my point. My point was that a lot of people may feel that way.
> And that Canon may have concluded that that's where the future is, at least in
> the near term. Your vigorously defensive reaction syggests to me that you may
> secretly suspect that I'm right.  ;^)
>
> Bob

The output from this new Canon seems very good, perhaps the best of
the current APS sized sensored cameras. Maybe.
From: John Sheehy on
Rich <rander3127(a)gmail.com> wrote in
news:103b5377-b98e-4a51-9d12-8526205b3952(a)v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> The output from this new Canon seems very good, perhaps the best of
> the current APS sized sensored cameras. Maybe.

At high ISO, certainly, based on the RAWs available. For base ISO, I've
seen at least one alarmingly poor sample, with an 8-column periodic
blackpoint offset pattern, with an amplitude of almost 20 14-bit ADUs.
Hope that was just a lemon, or an uncalibrated pre-production unit.
From: Rich on
On Sep 27, 11:59 am, John Sheehy <J...(a)no.komm> wrote:
> Rich <rander3...(a)gmail.com> wrote innews:103b5377-b98e-4a51-9d12-8526205b3952(a)v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > The output from this new Canon seems very good, perhaps the best of
> > the current APS sized sensored cameras.  Maybe.
>
> At high ISO, certainly, based on the RAWs available.  For base ISO, I've
> seen at least one alarmingly poor sample, with an 8-column periodic
> blackpoint offset pattern, with an amplitude of almost 20 14-bit ADUs.  
> Hope that was just a lemon, or an uncalibrated pre-production unit.

Was that posted online somewhere?
From: eNo on
Here's a link with sample images. The owner, coming from a 50D, is
actually claiming the 7D is better. You be the judge.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33171567

~~~
eNo
http://esfotoclix.com
From: Wolfgang Weisselberg on
Robert Coe <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote:

> My 50D is less than a year old, so I have no dog in this hunt. But if I were
> in your shoes, with a once excellent APS-C camera that's gone a bit long in
> the tooth,

The camera is about as good as it was on the day it was made.
It's even better in my hands than it was there in the beginning
since I have learned a lot about the dos and don'ts with that body.
:-)

So, I have an excellent APS-C camera that is eclipsed by some even
more excellent offerings. Life is good whether I upgrade or not.
Isn't that great? :-)

> I think I might be more likely to replace it with a 7D than with a
> 5D2.

I don't think I represent a majority or important minority.

> But that wasn't my point. My point was that a lot of people may feel that way.

It seems a lot of people are, uhm, a bit megapixel crazy.

A chain being only as strong as the weakest link, I feel that
resolution is already being limited by most lenses outside
their best apertures at lower than the present megapixels.
(I don't think you'll get a noticeably better image from a wide
open EF 50mm f/1.4 at 18MPix than at 8MPix + sensible upscaling
(e.g. Lanczos scaling) where needed, for a drastic example.)

> And that Canon may have concluded that that's where the future is, at least in
> the near term. Your vigorously defensive reaction syggests to me that you may
> secretly suspect that I'm right. ;^)

Canon has concluded that they need to sell cameras and to sell
cameras they need to compete in features and marketing numbers.
Megapixel record numbers belong there.

If suddenly a serious part of the camera buyers(!) would decide
cameras needed to look like puppys and smell of burned toast ---
well, Canon would be stupid to not offer them exactly that.

As for *me*, that's not where *my* future lies, yes.

-Wolfgang