From: Jean-David Beyer on
On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslaviero(a)interfree.it> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 3:48 am, "Ken Hart" <kwh...(a)aec.nu> wrote:
>> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1193472333.598880.285210(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> snip> These are my first two results. I've mounted on camera an EFKE 25
>> > film, I've taken 8 pictures, cut this first part adn put into a tank.
>> > Than I've taken again 8 pictures, the same of first time, cut film and
>> > put un another tank. I've dobe this three times.
>> > Than I've developed first part with ID-13 for 3 mins. Images are well
>> > contrasted BUT NOT enough. I remember I'm trying to obtain LINE works.
>> > With the second part I've used Kodak D-85 for 2.5 mins. SURPRISE!
>> > Everything is disappeared!!! I've a totally empty film, without any
>> > shadow or kind of figure! What's happen?
>>
>> Re: the D-85: Completely clear, including no edge printing? That's a
>> processing problem. Either the developer had no activity at all, or you
>> confused the developer and the fixer, and fixed the film first, completely
>> clearing it. (Everyone has to make that mistake at least once...I'm waiting
>> for it to happen to me!)
>>
>> You might want to take a chunk of film and just put it in the developer to
>> see if it turns black, and how long it takes.
>
> Assuming that errors can occour, this is not the case. I've prepared
> D-85 and immediately put into the tank, so I've developed film, not
> fixed. The fact is that everything is disappeared form film, numbers
> of pictures and trade mark too. Surely this is an extremely strong
> developer, I'm thinking to try again it but diluited ten times.
>
It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.

In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.

Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 07:45:01 up 5 days, 3 min, 1 user, load average: 4.08, 4.08, 4.09
From: piterengel on
On Oct 28, 12:53 pm, Jean-David Beyer <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain>
wrote:
> On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 28, 3:48 am, "Ken Hart" <kwh...(a)aec.nu> wrote:
> >> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1193472333.598880.285210(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> snip> These are my first two results. I've mounted on camera an EFKE 25
> >> > film, I've taken 8 pictures, cut this first part adn put into a tank.
> >> > Than I've taken again 8 pictures, the same of first time, cut film and
> >> > put un another tank. I've dobe this three times.
> >> > Than I've developed first part with ID-13 for 3 mins. Images are well
> >> > contrasted BUT NOT enough. I remember I'm trying to obtain LINE works.
> >> > With the second part I've used Kodak D-85 for 2.5 mins. SURPRISE!
> >> > Everything is disappeared!!! I've a totally empty film, without any
> >> > shadow or kind of figure! What's happen?
>
> >> Re: the D-85: Completely clear, including no edge printing? That's a
> >> processing problem. Either the developer had no activity at all, or you
> >> confused the developer and the fixer, and fixed the film first, completely
> >> clearing it. (Everyone has to make that mistake at least once...I'm waiting
> >> for it to happen to me!)
>
> >> You might want to take a chunk of film and just put it in the developer to
> >> see if it turns black, and how long it takes.
>
> > Assuming that errors can occour, this is not the case. I've prepared
> > D-85 and immediately put into the tank, so I've developed film, not
> > fixed. The fact is that everything is disappeared form film, numbers
> > of pictures and trade mark too. Surely this is an extremely strong
> > developer, I'm thinking to try again it but diluited ten times.
>
> It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
> that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
> trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
> must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
> have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.
>
> In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
> no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
> artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.
>
> Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.
>
> --
> .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 07:45:01 up 5 days, 3 min, 1 user, load average: 4.08, 4.08, 4.09

I'm sure both to have developed and not fixed the film and to have
usaed the right chemicals. I think simply D-85 is too strong and
completely unsuitable for Efke 35 mm film. I suspect that the critical
component is acetone, used instead of paraformaldehyde as said before.
Being this the "infectant" but necessary component for ultracontrast
developer, maybe it is too effective into bath.
P.

From: piterengel on
On Oct 28, 4:01 pm, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 12:53 pm, Jean-David Beyer <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 28, 3:48 am, "Ken Hart" <kwh...(a)aec.nu> wrote:
> > >> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message
>
> > >>news:1193472333.598880.285210(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > >> snip> These are my first two results. I've mounted on camera an EFKE 25
> > >> > film, I've taken 8 pictures, cut this first part adn put into a tank.
> > >> > Than I've taken again 8 pictures, the same of first time, cut film and
> > >> > put un another tank. I've dobe this three times.
> > >> > Than I've developed first part with ID-13 for 3 mins. Images are well
> > >> > contrasted BUT NOT enough. I remember I'm trying to obtain LINE works.
> > >> > With the second part I've used Kodak D-85 for 2.5 mins. SURPRISE!
> > >> > Everything is disappeared!!! I've a totally empty film, without any
> > >> > shadow or kind of figure! What's happen?
>
> > >> Re: the D-85: Completely clear, including no edge printing? That's a
> > >> processing problem. Either the developer had no activity at all, or you
> > >> confused the developer and the fixer, and fixed the film first, completely
> > >> clearing it. (Everyone has to make that mistake at least once...I'm waiting
> > >> for it to happen to me!)
>
> > >> You might want to take a chunk of film and just put it in the developer to
> > >> see if it turns black, and how long it takes.
>
> > > Assuming that errors can occour, this is not the case. I've prepared
> > > D-85 and immediately put into the tank, so I've developed film, not
> > > fixed. The fact is that everything is disappeared form film, numbers
> > > of pictures and trade mark too. Surely this is an extremely strong
> > > developer, I'm thinking to try again it but diluited ten times.
>
> > It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
> > that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
> > trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
> > must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
> > have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.
>
> > In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
> > no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
> > artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.
>
> > Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.
>
> > --
> > .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> > /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
> > /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
> > ^^-^^ 07:45:01 up 5 days, 3 min, 1 user, load average: 4.08, 4.08, 4.09
>
> I'm sure both to have developed and not fixed the film and to have
> usaed the right chemicals. I think simply D-85 is too strong and
> completely unsuitable for Efke 35 mm film. I suspect that the critical
> component is acetone, used instead of paraformaldehyde as said before.
> Being this the "infectant" but necessary component for ultracontrast
> developer, maybe it is too effective into bath.
> P.

I've found on an old italian darkroom cookbook these two developers.

1) FERRANIA R7

PART A
sodium sulfite 45 g
hydroquinone 10 g
sodium carbonate 30 g
potassium bromide 2 g
water to 500 ml

PART B
sodium hydroxyde 8 g
water to 500 ml

Mix Part A and Part B.

2) AGFA 22

metol 0.8 g
sodium sulfite 40 g
hydroquinone 8 g
potassium carbonate 50 g
potassium bromide 5 g
water to 1000 ml

Both two are given to be very high contrast developers. What do you
think about them?
P.

From: Jean-David Beyer on
On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslaviero(a)interfree.it> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 4:01 pm, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>> On Oct 28, 12:53 pm, Jean-David Beyer <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Oct 28, 3:48 am, "Ken Hart" <kwh...(a)aec.nu> wrote:
>> > >> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message
>>
>> > >>news:1193472333.598880.285210(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> > >> snip> These are my first two results. I've mounted on camera an EFKE 25
>> > >> > film, I've taken 8 pictures, cut this first part adn put into a tank.
>> > >> > Than I've taken again 8 pictures, the same of first time, cut film and
>> > >> > put un another tank. I've dobe this three times.
>> > >> > Than I've developed first part with ID-13 for 3 mins. Images are well
>> > >> > contrasted BUT NOT enough. I remember I'm trying to obtain LINE works.
>> > >> > With the second part I've used Kodak D-85 for 2.5 mins. SURPRISE!
>> > >> > Everything is disappeared!!! I've a totally empty film, without any
>> > >> > shadow or kind of figure! What's happen?
>>
>> > >> Re: the D-85: Completely clear, including no edge printing? That's a
>> > >> processing problem. Either the developer had no activity at all, or you
>> > >> confused the developer and the fixer, and fixed the film first, completely
>> > >> clearing it. (Everyone has to make that mistake at least once...I'm waiting
>> > >> for it to happen to me!)
>>
>> > >> You might want to take a chunk of film and just put it in the developer to
>> > >> see if it turns black, and how long it takes.
>>
>> > > Assuming that errors can occour, this is not the case. I've prepared
>> > > D-85 and immediately put into the tank, so I've developed film, not
>> > > fixed. The fact is that everything is disappeared form film, numbers
>> > > of pictures and trade mark too. Surely this is an extremely strong
>> > > developer, I'm thinking to try again it but diluited ten times.
>>
>> > It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
>> > that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
>> > trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
>> > must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
>> > have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.
>>
>> > In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
>> > no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
>> > artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.
>>
>> > Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.
>>
>> I'm sure both to have developed and not fixed the film and to have
>> usaed the right chemicals. I think simply D-85 is too strong and
>> completely unsuitable for Efke 35 mm film. I suspect that the critical
>> component is acetone, used instead of paraformaldehyde as said before.
>> Being this the "infectant" but necessary component for ultracontrast
>> developer, maybe it is too effective into bath.
>> P.

I never heard of using acetone instead of paraformaldehyde. That might
be a mistake in the formula. The only thing a "too strong" developer
might do is make the image too contrasty (sort-of impossible when
developing lith film), or too foggy. You are not getting fog. You are
not getting anything. If your film really should have edge markings,
then you are not developing enough (at all, actually).
>
> I've found on an old italian darkroom cookbook these two developers.

There are a lot of formulae going around. Most of only historical
interest. I know nothing about these. R7 seems like it would be a
high contrast developer, but nothing like what you would want for
lith film. Agfa 22 might be somewhat higher contrast than R7 or D76,
but not what would normally be required for lith film.
>
> 1) FERRANIA R7
>
> PART A
> sodium sulfite 45 g
> hydroquinone 10 g
> sodium carbonate 30 g
> potassium bromide 2 g
> water to 500 ml
>
> PART B
> sodium hydroxyde 8 g
> water to 500 ml
>
> Mix Part A and Part B.
>
> 2) AGFA 22
>
> metol 0.8 g
> sodium sulfite 40 g
> hydroquinone 8 g
> potassium carbonate 50 g
> potassium bromide 5 g
> water to 1000 ml
>
> Both two are given to be very high contrast developers. What do you
> think about them?
> P.
>


--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 14:05:01 up 5 days, 6:23, 4 users, load average: 4.11, 4.18, 4.16
From: piterengel on
On Oct 28, 7:13 pm, Jean-David Beyer <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain>
wrote:
> On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 28, 4:01 pm, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
> >> On Oct 28, 12:53 pm, Jean-David Beyer <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > On 2007-10-28, piterengel <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Oct 28, 3:48 am, "Ken Hart" <kwh...(a)aec.nu> wrote:
> >> > >> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message
>
> >> > >>news:1193472333.598880.285210(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> > >> snip> These are my first two results. I've mounted on camera an EFKE 25
> >> > >> > film, I've taken 8 pictures, cut this first part adn put into a tank.
> >> > >> > Than I've taken again 8 pictures, the same of first time, cut film and
> >> > >> > put un another tank. I've dobe this three times.
> >> > >> > Than I've developed first part with ID-13 for 3 mins. Images are well
> >> > >> > contrasted BUT NOT enough. I remember I'm trying to obtain LINE works.
> >> > >> > With the second part I've used Kodak D-85 for 2.5 mins. SURPRISE!
> >> > >> > Everything is disappeared!!! I've a totally empty film, without any
> >> > >> > shadow or kind of figure! What's happen?
>
> >> > >> Re: the D-85: Completely clear, including no edge printing? That's a
> >> > >> processing problem. Either the developer had no activity at all, or you
> >> > >> confused the developer and the fixer, and fixed the film first, completely
> >> > >> clearing it. (Everyone has to make that mistake at least once...I'm waiting
> >> > >> for it to happen to me!)
>
> >> > >> You might want to take a chunk of film and just put it in the developer to
> >> > >> see if it turns black, and how long it takes.
>
> >> > > Assuming that errors can occour, this is not the case. I've prepared
> >> > > D-85 and immediately put into the tank, so I've developed film, not
> >> > > fixed. The fact is that everything is disappeared form film, numbers
> >> > > of pictures and trade mark too. Surely this is an extremely strong
> >> > > developer, I'm thinking to try again it but diluited ten times.
>
> >> > It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
> >> > that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
> >> > trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
> >> > must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
> >> > have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.
>
> >> > In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
> >> > no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
> >> > artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.
>
> >> > Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.
>
> >> I'm sure both to have developed and not fixed the film and to have
> >> usaed the right chemicals. I think simply D-85 is too strong and
> >> completely unsuitable for Efke 35 mm film. I suspect that the critical
> >> component is acetone, used instead of paraformaldehyde as said before.
> >> Being this the "infectant" but necessary component for ultracontrast
> >> developer, maybe it is too effective into bath.
> >> P.
>
> I never heard of using acetone instead of paraformaldehyde. That might
> be a mistake in the formula. The only thing a "too strong" developer
> might do is make the image too contrasty (sort-of impossible when
> developing lith film), or too foggy. You are not getting fog. You are
> not getting anything. If your film really should have edge markings,
> then you are not developing enough (at all, actually).
>
>
>
> > I've found on an old italian darkroom cookbook these two developers.
>
> There are a lot of formulae going around. Most of only historical
> interest. I know nothing about these. R7 seems like it would be a
> high contrast developer, but nothing like what you would want for
> lith film. Agfa 22 might be somewhat higher contrast than R7 or D76,
> but not what would normally be required for lith film.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1) FERRANIA R7
>
> > PART A
> > sodium sulfite 45 g
> > hydroquinone 10 g
> > sodium carbonate 30 g
> > potassium bromide 2 g
> > water to 500 ml
>
> > PART B
> > sodium hydroxyde 8 g
> > water to 500 ml
>
> > Mix Part A and Part B.
>
> > 2) AGFA 22
>
> > metol 0.8 g
> > sodium sulfite 40 g
> > hydroquinone 8 g
> > potassium carbonate 50 g
> > potassium bromide 5 g
> > water to 1000 ml
>
> > Both two are given to be very high contrast developers. What do you
> > think about them?
> > P.
>
> --
> .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
> /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
> /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
> ^^-^^ 14:05:01 up 5 days, 6:23, 4 users, load average: 4.11, 4.18, 4.16

The fact is that EFKE KB 25 is NOT a lith film, but a normal b/w film.
As I've said in the first post and in its title my pourpose is to try
to emulate lith film using normal bw negatives choosing the
appropriate developer. This because in Italy it is quite impossible to
find real lith films. That's all.
P.

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