Lith film emulation
in [Darkroom]
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From: piterengel on 21 Oct 2007 14:35 Hi, becaise it no more possible to find lith film I need to try with a qute common film to obtain very high contrasted pictures. I have Efke KB 25 and Rollei PAN 25 at home. Can anybody suggest a developer to have extremely contrasted subjects? Thanks all P.
From: Richard Knoppow on 21 Oct 2007 17:36 "piterengel" <pslaviero(a)interfree.it> wrote in message news:1192991717.030130.83460(a)q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > Hi, becaise it no more possible to find lith film I need > to try with a > qute common film to obtain very high contrasted pictures. > I have Efke > KB 25 and Rollei PAN 25 at home. Can anybody suggest a > developer to > have extremely contrasted subjects? > Thanks all > P. The highest contrast is gotten using a lithographic developer like Kodak D-85 which produces "infective" development. However, D-85, and similar developers, use Formaldehyde, which is nasty stuff. There are somewhat lower contrast developers, like Kodak D-8, using Hydroxide, which produce very high contrast but not quite what a true lithographic developer gives. I don't think a lith developer is needed unless you are doing true line work. Lith film is still made but I don't know where to get it outside of the US. For pictorial purposes a print developer like Dektol will give you quite a bit higher contrast on film than the usual film developers but at the cost of being quite grainy. Since print developers are cheap and easy to obtain I would try one first to see if the contrast is high enough. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk(a)ix.netcom.com
From: Jean-David Beyer on 21 Oct 2007 18:23 On 2007-10-21, Richard Knoppow <dickburk(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > "piterengel" <pslaviero(a)interfree.it> wrote in message > news:1192991717.030130.83460(a)q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> Hi, becaise it no more possible to find lith film I need >> to try with a >> qute common film to obtain very high contrasted pictures. >> I have Efke >> KB 25 and Rollei PAN 25 at home. Can anybody suggest a >> developer to >> have extremely contrasted subjects? >> Thanks all >> P. > > > The highest contrast is gotten using a lithographic > developer like Kodak D-85 which produces "infective" > development. However, D-85, and similar developers, use > Formaldehyde, which is nasty stuff. I use Kodak litho film (not much) and one of their litho developers. It does not contain liquid formaldehyde, but paraformaldehyte that is a related compound. J.T.Baker have this to say about it: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p0154.htm As far as I can tell, I have never had any trouble with the mixed working strength developer. > There are somewhat lower > contrast developers, like Kodak D-8, using Hydroxide, which > produce very high contrast but not quite what a true > lithographic developer gives. I don't think a lith developer > is needed unless you are doing true line work. > Lith film is still made but I don't know where to get it > outside of the US. > For pictorial purposes a print developer like Dektol > will give you quite a bit higher contrast on film than the > usual film developers but at the cost of being quite grainy. > Since print developers are cheap and easy to obtain I would > try one first to see if the contrast is high enough. > > -- .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 18:20:01 up 15 days, 1:56, 1 user, load average: 5.22, 5.55, 5.14
From: Richard Knoppow on 22 Oct 2007 09:05 "Jean-David Beyer" <jdbeyer(a)trillian.localdomain> wrote in message news:slrnfhnkan.2sa.jdbeyer(a)trillian.localdomain... > On 2007-10-21, Richard Knoppow <dickburk(a)ix.netcom.com> > wrote: >> >> "piterengel" <pslaviero(a)interfree.it> wrote in message >> news:1192991717.030130.83460(a)q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >>> Hi, becaise it no more possible to find lith film I need >>> to try with a >>> qute common film to obtain very high contrasted >>> pictures. >>> I have Efke >>> KB 25 and Rollei PAN 25 at home. Can anybody suggest a >>> developer to >>> have extremely contrasted subjects? >>> Thanks all >>> P. >> >> >> The highest contrast is gotten using a lithographic >> developer like Kodak D-85 which produces "infective" >> development. However, D-85, and similar developers, use >> Formaldehyde, which is nasty stuff. > > I use Kodak litho film (not much) and one of their litho > developers. > It does not contain liquid formaldehyde, but > paraformaldehyte that > is a related compound. J.T.Baker have this to say about > it: > > http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p0154.htm > > As far as I can tell, I have never had any trouble with > the mixed > working strength developer. > >> There are somewhat lower >> contrast developers, like Kodak D-8, using Hydroxide, >> which >> produce very high contrast but not quite what a true >> lithographic developer gives. I don't think a lith >> developer >> is needed unless you are doing true line work. >> Lith film is still made but I don't know where to get >> it >> outside of the US. >> For pictorial purposes a print developer like Dektol >> will give you quite a bit higher contrast on film than >> the >> usual film developers but at the cost of being quite >> grainy. >> Since print developers are cheap and easy to obtain I >> would >> try one first to see if the contrast is high enough. >> >> > > > -- > .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User > 85642. > /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine > 241939. > /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org > ^^-^^ 18:20:01 up 15 days, 1:56, 1 user, load average: > 5.22, 5.55, 5.14 Actually, D-85 uses paraformaldehyde, which is a crystaline form and becomes formaldehyde in solution. It is a two solution developer, the two parts being mixed just before use. I don't know if there is a more environmentally friendly substance that can be used in stead of the paraformaldehyde. Its function in the developer is not as a hardener but specifically to promote infectious developemt. This causes dense areas to develop much more rapidly than lower densities resulting in exagerated contrast. For the most part lithographic developers were used for line work where the negative needed to be either very high density or clear. Lith developers are also currently used for lith printing. This is a sort of special effect which has become popular in the last decade or so. A Google search for lith printing will give you lots of hits. For just higher than normal contrast on pictorial film I think less extreme developers will work fine. One can use something like Kodak D-8 or D-11 but, as I mentioned before, probably any print developer will be enough. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk(a)ix.netcom.com
From: piterengel on 22 Oct 2007 14:43
On Oct 22, 3:05 pm, "Richard Knoppow" <dickb...(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: > "Jean-David Beyer" <jdbe...(a)trillian.localdomain> wrote in > messagenews:slrnfhnkan.2sa.jdbeyer(a)trillian.localdomain... > > > > > On 2007-10-21, Richard Knoppow <dickb...(a)ix.netcom.com> > > wrote: > > >> "piterengel" <pslavi...(a)interfree.it> wrote in message > >>news:1192991717.030130.83460(a)q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > >>> Hi, becaise it no more possible to find lith film I need > >>> to try with a > >>> qute common film to obtain very high contrasted > >>> pictures. > >>> I have Efke > >>> KB 25 and Rollei PAN 25 at home. Can anybody suggest a > >>> developer to > >>> have extremely contrasted subjects? > >>> Thanks all > >>> P. > > >> The highest contrast is gotten using a lithographic > >> developer like Kodak D-85 which produces "infective" > >> development. However, D-85, and similar developers, use > >> Formaldehyde, which is nasty stuff. > > > I use Kodak litho film (not much) and one of their litho > > developers. > > It does not contain liquid formaldehyde, but > > paraformaldehyte that > > is a related compound. J.T.Baker have this to say about > > it: > > >http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p0154.htm > > > As far as I can tell, I have never had any trouble with > > the mixed > > working strength developer. > > >> There are somewhat lower > >> contrast developers, like Kodak D-8, using Hydroxide, > >> which > >> produce very high contrast but not quite what a true > >> lithographic developer gives. I don't think a lith > >> developer > >> is needed unless you are doing true line work. > >> Lith film is still made but I don't know where to get > >> it > >> outside of the US. > >> For pictorial purposes a print developer like Dektol > >> will give you quite a bit higher contrast on film than > >> the > >> usual film developers but at the cost of being quite > >> grainy. > >> Since print developers are cheap and easy to obtain I > >> would > >> try one first to see if the contrast is high enough. > > > -- > > .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User > > 85642. > > /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine > > 241939. > > /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org > > ^^-^^ 18:20:01 up 15 days, 1:56, 1 user, load average: > > 5.22, 5.55, 5.14 > > Actually, D-85 uses paraformaldehyde, which is a > crystaline form and becomes formaldehyde in solution. It is > a two solution developer, the two parts being mixed just > before use. I don't know if there is a more environmentally > friendly substance that can be used in stead of the > paraformaldehyde. Its function in the developer is not as a > hardener but specifically to promote infectious developemt. > This causes dense areas to develop much more rapidly than > lower densities resulting in exagerated contrast. For the > most part lithographic developers were used for line work > where the negative needed to be either very high density or > clear. Lith developers are also currently used for lith > printing. This is a sort of special effect which has become > popular in the last decade or so. A Google search for lith > printing will give you lots of hits. > For just higher than normal contrast on pictorial film I > think less extreme developers will work fine. One can use > something like Kodak D-8 or D-11 but, as I mentioned before, > probably any print developer will be enough. > > -- > --- > Richard Knoppow > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickb...(a)ix.netcom.com I've already tried ID-13 with Ilford Delta 100 film to obtain "line art" pictures but result was totally wrong. Maybe I've to use stronger developer, with paraformaldehyde in composition, together with a low sensibility film. Thanks for all hints. P. |