From: Bill Graham on

"Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25109694840dbcee9897d5(a)news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <4aa6c94e$0$1631$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>,
> scharf.steven(a)geemail.com says...
>
>> >> Surely, you aren't suggesting that we "cut and run' are ya?
>> >
>> > I've never suggested this. I think victory in Afghanistan is
>> > essential.
>> > Fortunately, the new president appears to agree with me 100%.
>>
>> I think we need to define "victory." The Soviet Union realized that
>> Afghanistan was a hopeless case. Bush and his cronies paid far too
>> little attention to Afghanistan for political reasons, essentially
>> wasting eight years of effort and money. There needs to be a more
>> realistic plan.
>
> Yeah. Whew. I'm all ears. What *is* Obama's "plan?"
>
> Exactly.
>
> On anything.
>
We've destroyed OBL's terrorist training camp, so if OBL himself isn't
there, then what are we doing there? We should get out and go home. Oh! I
forgot.....The Democrats are there now.....so, it's OK. It's only wrong if a
Republican president does it......

From: Bill Graham on

"Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2510ceb8d58a09669897d8(a)news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <q5GdnRkp9JUInDrXnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, weg9
> @comcast.net says...
>
>> During WW-II Guys like Ernie Pyle took hundreds of photos of dead and
>> dying
>> soldiers, many of which were published in the newspapers of the day.
>
> Cite?

Sorry.....I got Pyle confused with Joe Rosenthal. Pyle was a journalist who
wrote about the war, but he wrote his stuff from the war....That is, he was
actually there. Rosenthal was the photographer I was thinking of....He was
also there. He's the one who took the famous photo of the flag raising at
Iwo Jima.....

From: Savageduck on
On 2009-09-08 18:42:31 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:

>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009090719052770933-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2009-09-07 18:46:25 -0700, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) said:
>>
>>> Doug McDonald <mcdonald(a)NoSpAmscs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>> DG wrote:
>>>>> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
>>>>> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
>>>>
>>>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
>>>> the family's wishes, and the people who
>>>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.
>>>
>>> That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the war.
>>>
>>>> There is nothing
>>>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
>>>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
>>>
>>> The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
>>> right to know how their money is being spent.
>>
>> As a refugee of the 60's with a draft number of 54, "spent" is not what
>> I would have said. I would think the term used in my war would have
>> been more appropriate, "wasted!"
>> Savageduck
>>
> I am sorry you believe that. I know a number of Vietnam vets who are
> proud of their service.....They didn't buy into the left wing
> propaganda that insisted they be ashamed of their service. They really
> believed they were fighting to protect South Vietnam from Communism. I
> wonder what the average Vietnamese citizen believes......


Who said I wasn't proud of my service?
What I said was, the sentiment at the time among those doing the
bleeding on the ground, was they were being "wasted" for a badly
managed and ill-conceived war, similar to what we have dealt with for
the last 7 years.
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident as sold by LBJ was as bad as anything the
Bush/Cheney cabal pulled and by 1968 you had to be a true ignoramus
(and they were there) if you thought you were taking that flight to
exotic places to stop another domino from falling.

The Vietnamese probably thought, "Boy! it has taken 1500 years, but we
have finally got rid of the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the
French again, and the Americans, ...but we don't mind if the Russians
and Americans come in as tourists."

The Afghanis are probably working on a similar list starting with Alexander.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

From: Bill Graham on

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009090821334129267-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2009-09-08 18:42:31 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>> news:2009090719052770933-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2009-09-07 18:46:25 -0700, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) said:
>>>
>>>> Doug McDonald <mcdonald(a)NoSpAmscs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>>> DG wrote:
>>>>>> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
>>>>>> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
>>>>>
>>>>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
>>>>> the family's wishes, and the people who
>>>>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.
>>>>
>>>> That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the
>>>> war.
>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing
>>>>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
>>>>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
>>>>
>>>> The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
>>>> right to know how their money is being spent.
>>>
>>> As a refugee of the 60's with a draft number of 54, "spent" is not what
>>> I would have said. I would think the term used in my war would have been
>>> more appropriate, "wasted!"
>>> Savageduck
>>>
>> I am sorry you believe that. I know a number of Vietnam vets who are
>> proud of their service.....They didn't buy into the left wing propaganda
>> that insisted they be ashamed of their service. They really believed they
>> were fighting to protect South Vietnam from Communism. I wonder what the
>> average Vietnamese citizen believes......
>
>
> Who said I wasn't proud of my service?
> What I said was, the sentiment at the time among those doing the bleeding
> on the ground, was they were being "wasted" for a badly managed and
> ill-conceived war, similar to what we have dealt with for the last 7
> years.
> The Gulf of Tonkin Incident as sold by LBJ was as bad as anything the
> Bush/Cheney cabal pulled and by 1968 you had to be a true ignoramus (and
> they were there) if you thought you were taking that flight to exotic
> places to stop another domino from falling.
>
> The Vietnamese probably thought, "Boy! it has taken 1500 years, but we
> have finally got rid of the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the French
> again, and the Americans, ...but we don't mind if the Russians and
> Americans come in as tourists."
>
> The Afghanis are probably working on a similar list starting with
> Alexander.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Savageduck
>

Well, I wouldn't mind getting out of Afghanistan. I think we are wasting our
time there. The terrorist camp has been destroyed, and OBL is probably no
longer there, so what are we doing there? In the old days, we would just put
some CIA operatives there, and in a few months, they would tell us exactly
where OBL was hiding. Then we would take him out and go home......today,
with a gutted CIA, we have to do everything the hard way......Whatever
happened to the good old days? I think Carter and Nixon ruined the CIA, and
now we are paying the price for that.

From: Ray Fischer on
Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>news:2009090719052770933-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2009-09-07 18:46:25 -0700, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) said:
>>
>>> Doug McDonald <mcdonald(a)NoSpAmscs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>> DG wrote:
>>>>> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
>>>>> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
>>>>
>>>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
>>>> the family's wishes, and the people who
>>>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.
>>>
>>> That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the war.
>>>
>>>> There is nothing
>>>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
>>>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
>>>
>>> The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
>>> right to know how their money is being spent.
>>
>> As a refugee of the 60's with a draft number of 54, "spent" is not what I
>> would have said. I would think the term used in my war would have been
>> more appropriate, "wasted!"
>> Savageduck
>>
>I am sorry you believe that. I know a number of Vietnam vets who are proud
>of their service.....They didn't buy into the left wing propaganda that
>insisted they be ashamed of their service.

The US invaded a country for a lie and as a result over a million
people died.

> They really believed they were
>fighting to protect South Vietnam from Communism.

People should not be so willing to believe everything the government
says. ESPECIALLY when it's justification for war.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net