From: Savageduck on
On 2009-09-08 20:54:26 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:

>
> "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2510ceb8d58a09669897d8(a)news-east.giganews.com...
>> In article <q5GdnRkp9JUInDrXnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, weg9
>> @comcast.net says...
>>
>>> During WW-II Guys like Ernie Pyle took hundreds of photos of dead and dying
>>> soldiers, many of which were published in the newspapers of the day.
>>
>> Cite?
>
> Sorry.....I got Pyle confused with Joe Rosenthal. Pyle was a journalist
> who wrote about the war, but he wrote his stuff from the war....That
> is, he was actually there. Rosenthal was the photographer I was
> thinking of....He was also there. He's the one who took the famous
> photo of the flag raising at Iwo Jima.....

If you wanted to cite a WWII combat photographer with credentials you
should have gone with Robert Capa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Capa

If you wanted Vietnam era think Larry Burrows, Catherine LeRoy, Henri
Huet, Tim Page;
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0302/lb_index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Leroy
http://www.popphoto.com/Features/They-Were-Soldiers-Once
http://contactpressimages.com/news/?p=43
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Huet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Page_(photographer)

....and it takes men such as Horst Faas and Malcolm Brown to get some of
the valuable unpleasant images to print.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Faas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Brown_(Australian_journalist)

--
Regards,

Savageduck

From: Savageduck on
On 2009-09-08 21:44:16 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:

>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009090821334129267-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2009-09-08 18:42:31 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:
>>
>>>
>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>>> news:2009090719052770933-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>> On 2009-09-07 18:46:25 -0700, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) said:
>>>>
>>>>> Doug McDonald <mcdonald(a)NoSpAmscs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> DG wrote:
>>>>>>> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
>>>>>>> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
>>>>>> the family's wishes, and the people who
>>>>>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the war.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is nothing
>>>>>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
>>>>>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
>>>>> right to know how their money is being spent.
>>>>
>>>> As a refugee of the 60's with a draft number of 54, "spent" is not what
>>>> I would have said. I would think the term used in my war would have
>>>> been more appropriate, "wasted!"
>>>> Savageduck
>>>>
>>> I am sorry you believe that. I know a number of Vietnam vets who are
>>> proud of their service.....They didn't buy into the left wing
>>> propaganda that insisted they be ashamed of their service. They really
>>> believed they were fighting to protect South Vietnam from Communism. I
>>> wonder what the average Vietnamese citizen believes......
>>
>>
>> Who said I wasn't proud of my service?
>> What I said was, the sentiment at the time among those doing the
>> bleeding on the ground, was they were being "wasted" for a badly
>> managed and ill-conceived war, similar to what we have dealt with for
>> the last 7 years.
>> The Gulf of Tonkin Incident as sold by LBJ was as bad as anything the
>> Bush/Cheney cabal pulled and by 1968 you had to be a true ignoramus
>> (and they were there) if you thought you were taking that flight to
>> exotic places to stop another domino from falling.
>>
>> The Vietnamese probably thought, "Boy! it has taken 1500 years, but we
>> have finally got rid of the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the
>> French again, and the Americans, ...but we don't mind if the Russians
>> and Americans come in as tourists."
>>
>> The Afghanis are probably working on a similar list starting with Alexander.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Savageduck
>>
>
> Well, I wouldn't mind getting out of Afghanistan. I think we are
> wasting our time there. The terrorist camp has been destroyed, and OBL
> is probably no longer there, so what are we doing there? In the old
> days, we would just put some CIA operatives there, and in a few months,
> they would tell us exactly where OBL was hiding. Then we would take him
> out and go home......today, with a gutted CIA, we have to do everything
> the hard way......Whatever happened to the good old days? I think
> Carter and Nixon ruined the CIA, and now we are paying the price for
> that.

The CIA was rotten from inception. It was the brain child of Allan
Dulles who maintained control until 1961. Along with his brother John
Foster Dulles he led us through a shopping list of Caribbean, Central &
South American and Asian foreign policy debacles. His was the era of
"The Ugly American."
--
Regards,

Savageduck

From: Giftzwerg on
In article <372dnZTSXqZouzrXnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, weg9
@comcast.net says...

> >> During WW-II Guys like Ernie Pyle took hundreds of photos of dead and
> >> dying
> >> soldiers, many of which were published in the newspapers of the day.
> >
> > Cite?
>
> Sorry.....I got Pyle confused with Joe Rosenthal. Pyle was a journalist who
> wrote about the war, but he wrote his stuff from the war....That is, he was
> actually there. Rosenthal was the photographer I was thinking of....He was
> also there. He's the one who took the famous photo of the flag raising at
> Iwo Jima.....

See, I only recall one instance of US war dead being shown on the
battlefield, an image of Marine corpses on the beach at Tarawa - and
even that image was different in a crucial way from the one being
discussed here; the dead bodies were not identified nor recognizable in
any way.

Any number of such photos certainly exist, but I don't recall
"hundreds" of them festooning the "newspapers of the day."

--
Giftzwerg
***
"Nobody wants what the president is selling, insofar as anybody can
figure out exactly what he's selling. The magic elixir may be the
president himself, and lately nobody's buying that, either."
- Wes Pruden
From: Giftzwerg on
In article <uffea59v696nct2ecnnlqml95lc8khosl0(a)4ax.com>,
xxxxxxxx(a)xxxxxx.xxxxxx says...

> >>Gawrsh, but IIRC, "Gates" is B. Hussein Obama's defense secretary.
> >
> >Ya know, referring to Barak Obama that way only shows you to be a
> >religious bigot. You think that "Hussien" is significant (and bad)
> >simply because it's a common name in the mideast.
>
>
> Either that or he listens to a fat junkie on the radio...

Gawrsh. Are you guys ashamed of Obama's name or something?

--
Giftzwerg
***
"Nobody wants what the president is selling, insofar as anybody can
figure out exactly what he's selling. The magic elixir may be the
president himself, and lately nobody's buying that, either."
- Wes Pruden
From: Chris Malcolm on
In rec.photo.digital Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:

> "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.25109694840dbcee9897d5(a)news-east.giganews.com...
>> In article <4aa6c94e$0$1631$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>,
>> scharf.steven(a)geemail.com says...
>>
>>> >> Surely, you aren't suggesting that we "cut and run' are ya?
>>> >
>>> > I've never suggested this. I think victory in Afghanistan is
>>> > essential.
>>> > Fortunately, the new president appears to agree with me 100%.
>>>
>>> I think we need to define "victory." The Soviet Union realized that
>>> Afghanistan was a hopeless case. Bush and his cronies paid far too
>>> little attention to Afghanistan for political reasons, essentially
>>> wasting eight years of effort and money. There needs to be a more
>>> realistic plan.
>>
>> Yeah. Whew. I'm all ears. What *is* Obama's "plan?"
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> On anything.
>>
> We've destroyed OBL's terrorist training camp, so if OBL himself isn't
> there, then what are we doing there? We should get out and go home. Oh! I
> forgot.....The Democrats are there now.....so, it's OK. It's only wrong if a
> Republican president does it......

Where om earth did you get the idea that there was only one training
camp?

--
Chris Malcolm