From: Bill Graham on

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}> wrote in message
> On 2009-09-08 21:44:16 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> said:
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}> wrote in message
>> news:2009090821334129267-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2009-09-08 18:42:31 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> said:
>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}> wrote in message
>>>> news:2009090719052770933-savageduck(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>>> On 2009-09-07 18:46:25 -0700, rfischer(a) (Ray Fischer) said:
>>>>>> Doug McDonald <mcdonald(a)> wrote:
>>>>>>> DG wrote:
>>>>>>>> If people are upset about the photo then they should blame the
>>>>>>>> politicians for the war, not the photographer for the image.
>>>>>>> NO! They should blame the scum people who print it against
>>>>>>> the family's wishes, and the people who
>>>>>>> started the war: al Qaeda and the Taliban.
>>>>>> That's a rightard lie. It was Bush and the neocons who started the
>>>>>> war.
>>>>>>> There is nothing
>>>>>>> wrong with the photographer taking it ... if the family
>>>>>>> had agreed, publishing it would have been OK.
>>>>>> The soldier was there on the taxpayer's dime. The taxpayers have the
>>>>>> right to know how their money is being spent.
>>>>> As a refugee of the 60's with a draft number of 54, "spent" is not
>>>>> what I would have said. I would think the term used in my war would
>>>>> have been more appropriate, "wasted!"
>>>>> Savageduck
>>>> I am sorry you believe that. I know a number of Vietnam vets who are
>>>> proud of their service.....They didn't buy into the left wing
>>>> propaganda that insisted they be ashamed of their service. They really
>>>> believed they were fighting to protect South Vietnam from Communism. I
>>>> wonder what the average Vietnamese citizen believes......
>>> Who said I wasn't proud of my service?
>>> What I said was, the sentiment at the time among those doing the
>>> bleeding on the ground, was they were being "wasted" for a badly managed
>>> and ill-conceived war, similar to what we have dealt with for the last 7
>>> years.
>>> The Gulf of Tonkin Incident as sold by LBJ was as bad as anything the
>>> Bush/Cheney cabal pulled and by 1968 you had to be a true ignoramus (and
>>> they were there) if you thought you were taking that flight to exotic
>>> places to stop another domino from falling.
>>> The Vietnamese probably thought, "Boy! it has taken 1500 years, but we
>>> have finally got rid of the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the
>>> French again, and the Americans, ...but we don't mind if the Russians
>>> and Americans come in as tourists."
>>> The Afghanis are probably working on a similar list starting with
>>> Alexander.
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Savageduck
>> Well, I wouldn't mind getting out of Afghanistan. I think we are wasting
>> our time there. The terrorist camp has been destroyed, and OBL is
>> probably no longer there, so what are we doing there? In the old days, we
>> would just put some CIA operatives there, and in a few months, they would
>> tell us exactly where OBL was hiding. Then we would take him out and go
>>, with a gutted CIA, we have to do everything the hard
>> way......Whatever happened to the good old days? I think Carter and Nixon
>> ruined the CIA, and now we are paying the price for that.
> The CIA was rotten from inception. It was the brain child of Allan Dulles
> who maintained control until 1961. Along with his brother John Foster
> Dulles he led us through a shopping list of Caribbean, Central & South
> American and Asian foreign policy debacles. His was the era of "The Ugly
> American."
> --
> Regards,
> Savageduck
Yes, but in the old days, the agency was capable of carrying out some real
clandestine operations.....They could go into foreign countries and take out
selected individuals that we really needed to get rid of. Then it became
"politically incorrect" to kill people, and they started publishing where
all the money went, so operations like that could no longer take place. So
now, we have to spend billions of dollars and waste thousands of lives to
get rid of people like Saddam Hussein.

From: Bill Graham on

"Chris Malcolm" <cam(a)> wrote in message
> In Bill Graham <weg9(a)> wrote:
>> "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.25109694840dbcee9897d5(a)
>>> In article <4aa6c94e$0$1631$742ec2ed(a)>,
>>> scharf.steven(a) says...
>>>> >> Surely, you aren't suggesting that we "cut and run' are ya?
>>>> >
>>>> > I've never suggested this. I think victory in Afghanistan is
>>>> > essential.
>>>> > Fortunately, the new president appears to agree with me 100%.
>>>> I think we need to define "victory." The Soviet Union realized that
>>>> Afghanistan was a hopeless case. Bush and his cronies paid far too
>>>> little attention to Afghanistan for political reasons, essentially
>>>> wasting eight years of effort and money. There needs to be a more
>>>> realistic plan.
>>> Yeah. Whew. I'm all ears. What *is* Obama's "plan?"
>>> Exactly.
>>> On anything.
>> We've destroyed OBL's terrorist training camp, so if OBL himself isn't
>> there, then what are we doing there? We should get out and go home. Oh! I
>> forgot.....The Democrats are there, it's OK. It's only wrong
>> if a
>> Republican president does it......
> Where om earth did you get the idea that there was only one training
> camp?

You got me.......Was there more than one? I don't know anything about OBL
and his operations. Why would he want to have more than one? All they did
was run around the desert like marines in long robes, didn't they?

From: Miles Bader on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> writes:
>> I assumed that was included in BG's criticism of Middle Eastern
>> religions. The main religions originating in the Middle East amd still
>> extant today would be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastranism, and
>> Baha'i. Don't know what BG has against Baha'i...
> I never heard of Baha'i. It was not one of the World's 11 major
> religions that I was taught back in grammar school, although I doubt if
> I could remember all of them now. Add Shinto, and Buddhism to your above
> list. And Sikhism and Hinduism too.....

Er, Shinto, Buddhism, etc, didn't originate in the middle east.


Un-American, adj. Wicked, intolerable, heathenish.
From: Bill Graham on

<"mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH ME"> wrote in message
> And keep a free press. Without Fox News we would be in really bad shape.

Talk about oxymoron's.......Without Fox news, there wouldn't be anything
that even approximates a "free press". Fox is the only news service that
isn't in the liberal's pockets. I guess you would like to just listen to
Brian Williams, Katy Kourik and Dan Rather?

From: Bill Graham on

"Pete Stavrakoglou" <ntotrr(a)> wrote in message
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote in message
> news:Aa-dnS6w8L_-kjrXnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d(a)
>> "Giftzwerg" <giftzwerg999(a)> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.250fe94890cf501f9897c8(a)
>>> "Forty-two percent (42%) of U.S. voters say a group of people randomly
>>> selected from the phone book would do a better job than the current
>>> Congress."
>>> - Rassmussen Reports
>> I wouldn't use the telephone book, but I would use the voter registration
>> rolls, and I would pick two hundred people at random from all over the
>> US, every couple of years, until I had about 600 people, and then they
>> would run the country for 6 years each group, with the oldest group being
>> replaced by a fresh 200 every two years. That way, we would get rid of
>> all the crooked lawyers, and get a congress of real citizens, from every
>> walk of life....Store keepers, fishermen, farmers, engineers, doctors,
>> accountants, policemen, and yes, even an occasional lawyer. We'd have
>> much better, and more honest, representation than we have right now,
>> that's for sure.
> Sounds like you want to go back to the old days when this was just how it
> was done. You can make the case that this was how the founding fathers
> envisioned the Congress. Now, it's full of lifetime officeholders, some
> of whom could give a darn as to what their constituents want. It's time
> for term limits. If anyone wants a reson for term limits, I'll give you
> two - Barney Frank and Charles Rangel. These guys should be poster
> children for term limits. I'd throw Ted Kennedy in there too but he's
> passed on.
Yes. But, I believe that voting had been the reason why the original system
has come to where it is today......The congressional leaders have figured
out that they can buy themselves into office by spending money on
advertising. In my system, voting would be eliminated, and the congress
would be chosen by lottery, so nobody would be able to buy themselves into
office, and the congress would be truly representative of the people. Why,
there would be some real poverty-stricken members there, too!