From: Neil Harrington on

"Bruce" <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8h4v5lslqnpcd6fvrs1m9vn2u5m8ok288(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 17 May 2010 23:06:54 -0700, C J Campbell
> <christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>But I don't think the OP is from the USA. I think he wants to take
>>pictures on Cathay Pacific flights. I think if I wanted to take
>>pictures on a Cathay Pacific flight, I would just take pictures until a
>>crew member asked me to stop.
>
>
> Only a complete fool would do that.
>
> It appears you are that complete fool. ;-)

On the contrary, C J is one of the people here always worth paying attention
to. Failing to recognize that makes you the fool.


From: C J Campbell on
On 2010-05-18 05:29:38 -0700, Bruce <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> said:

> On Tue, 18 May 2010 04:12:29 -0700, C J Campbell
> <christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-05-18 00:41:41 -0700, Bruce <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 16:45:41 -0700, C J Campbell
>>> <christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You have confused "private property" with "private place." An airplane,
>>>> cruise ship, restaurant, sports stadium, or garden might well be
>>>> private property. But they are public places -- open to the general
>>>> public. As such, the burden of proof is on you to show that you have a
>>>> reasonable expectation of privacy in such places.
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone should beware amateur "legal experts" who post on Usenet
>>> newsgroups.
>>
>> ROFL! Such as yourself, you mean?
>
>
> On the contrary, because I shoot images for a living, I have to know
> where I stand in relation to the law. As a result, I pay for, and
> take account of, specialist legal advice.
>
> You, on the other hand, can give all the BS advice you want, because
> you haven't any experience to tell you just how wrong you are. You
> are completely out of touch with reality.

Actually, I also pay for specialist legal advice.

Okay, so my lawyer disagrees with your lawyer.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

From: Bruce on
On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:16:01 -0700, C J Campbell
<christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 2010-05-18 05:29:38 -0700, Bruce <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> said:
>
>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 04:12:29 -0700, C J Campbell
>> <christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2010-05-18 00:41:41 -0700, Bruce <docnews2011(a)gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 16:45:41 -0700, C J Campbell
>>>> <christophercampbellremovethis(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You have confused "private property" with "private place." An airplane,
>>>>> cruise ship, restaurant, sports stadium, or garden might well be
>>>>> private property. But they are public places -- open to the general
>>>>> public. As such, the burden of proof is on you to show that you have a
>>>>> reasonable expectation of privacy in such places.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everyone should beware amateur "legal experts" who post on Usenet
>>>> newsgroups.
>>>
>>> ROFL! Such as yourself, you mean?
>>
>>
>> On the contrary, because I shoot images for a living, I have to know
>> where I stand in relation to the law. As a result, I pay for, and
>> take account of, specialist legal advice.
>>
>> You, on the other hand, can give all the BS advice you want, because
>> you haven't any experience to tell you just how wrong you are. You
>> are completely out of touch with reality.
>
>Actually, I also pay for specialist legal advice.
>
>Okay, so my lawyer disagrees with your lawyer.


Mine is one of the UK's top intellectual property lawyers who also
lectures in IP law at two Ivy League universities and at the UK's top
law school.

I emailed him a copy of this thread. He called me to thank me for
giving him his best laugh so far in 2010 (it was your comments that he
found especially amusing) and asked me if he could use the discussion
in his lectures as a particularly good illustration of people's
ignorance about the law. I said that appeared to be almost a
definition of "fair use" and he laughed even more ...

You are truly hilarious. Congratulations!


To the original poster: Do not even attempt what you are proposing
without obtaining prior written permission from the airline. And
don't be disappointed if they say No. That's free advice from one of
the best intellectual property lawyers in the world.

From: Chris H on
In message <f2m5v5lcmnio1bpj0p5q0eg9gh83i3vn13(a)4ax.com>, Bruce
<docnews2011(a)gmail.com> writes
>To the original poster: Do not even attempt what you are proposing
>without obtaining prior written permission from the airline. And
>don't be disappointed if they say No. That's free advice from one of
>the best intellectual property lawyers in the world.

Whilst I agree with you what does the "best IP lawyer in the world" know
about airline and photography law? Probably the same as a public order
lawyer knows about IP law?

AS it stands the airline make the rules as part of the conditions for
travel. (Read the small print on the booking form :-) If you take any
pictures and another fare paying customer objects you will be asked to
stop. Then the law is all on the side of the airline.


--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/



From: nospam on
In article <f2m5v5lcmnio1bpj0p5q0eg9gh83i3vn13(a)4ax.com>, Bruce
<docnews2011(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Mine is one of the UK's top intellectual property lawyers who also
> lectures in IP law at two Ivy League universities and at the UK's top
> law school.

uk law is not applicable everywhere, and just because he's a lawyer
doesn't mean he's always 100% correct.

> To the original poster: Do not even attempt what you are proposing
> without obtaining prior written permission from the airline. And
> don't be disappointed if they say No.

nonsense. absent a prohibition of photography, it is completely legal.

a flight attendant might ask the person to stop and s/he would need to
comply with their request. some airlines prohibit taking photos of the
flight crew, but photos out the window and of traveling companions are
fine.

countless people take photos inside and outside airplanes and at
airports every day. neither of these sites would be possible if it were
illegal:
<http://www.airliners.net/advsearch/>
<http://www.airlinemeals.net/index.php>

and if you want a lawyer's opinion, there are several lawyers on
flyertalk.com who will tell you *exactly* what the relevant laws are
(one of whom used to post in this newsgroup).

the topic comes up a lot on flyertalk, with people posting photos of
cabin interiors, the food served, views out the window and more. one
person was even assaulted by rent-a-cops at jfk and he stood firm, and
ultimately got a letter of apology.

<http://www.krages.com/lhp.htm>
<http://ambientlight.ca/laws.php>
<http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/>

> That's free advice from one of
> the best intellectual property lawyers in the world.

a true lawyer would not be giving advice to a non-client, especially
via someone posting for him, over usenet.

if someone is really concerned, contact their own attorney for advice.