From: Robert Brace on

"Alan" <alanremovecalan(a)excite.com> wrote in message
news:2mt8l35ch926gkqahieffm56k4i61qk073(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:54:59 -0800, SMS ???. ?
> <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>
> .
>>
>>It's not a question of being smart or stupid. Nikon lags Canon in sensor
>>development, and Canon certainly isn't going to sell sensors to Nikon.
> Well, if there is that much of a difference is it not stupid to have a
> new D300 not being full frame when Nikon's major competitor has a
> camera only a few hundred dollars more that is full frame?
>
>>Canon has better auto-focus, but I doubt if that's the reason for any
>>difference you perceive.
>
> Aren't we somewhat dependent on how well and how fast a camera
> focuses? Unless we do it ourselves, whatever the camera does is what
> we get. In the pictures of the bears, where the "hairs" in the 5D
> pictures were in better focus, or maybe it was the extra megapixels)
>
> There was a comparison picture shooting up into a tree. Ken says the
> original picture was 44 inches. So was the piece he showed, just a
> tiny piece of a large picture or was that the entire picture shrunk
> down? As you can see I am very confused especially after Ken
> recommends the D200 over the 5D unless you need very large pictures or
> extreme wide angle lenses or you always use a tripod.
>
>>
>>You really want to compare the Nikon D3 the Canon 5D in terms of picture
>>quality, though the D3 is a better built body.
>
> The Nikon D3 is $5,000. How can you compare that to a $2,200 camera?
>>
>>It's rather amusing that even the D3 didn't quite make it to "full
>>frame." Because of the limitations of Nikon's F mount, and the need for
>>the pixels of a sensor to have light strike them perpendicularly, they
>>could not quite get to 36mm x 24mm.
>>
>>Some have criticized that if you use DX lenses with the D3 you are
>>reduced to 5 megapixels. But with Canon, you can't use the EF-s lenses
>>at all on the 5D (or any other full-frame Canon model), even at reduced
>>resolution.
>
> Actually, this is important to me because I have an F5. What happens
> to DX lenses on the F5?. Between new DX lenses not being great on the
> F5, not being able to use the SB28 with the D200 or D300 and all my
> lenses are AF not AF-S, am I gaining that much by staying with Nikon
> or could I sell everything on Ebay and get used Canon compatilbe
> accessories, if there are any for the 5D.
>
>>In any case, I would not base a decision on anything Rockwell has said,
>>or that he shows on his site. If you really want full-frame, get the 5D.
>>Otherwise you'll be happy with the D300.
>
> I get the feeling that Rockwell is doing the right thing but not
> explaining it well enough for us not so experienced.

Well Alan, I've come to the same conclusion as others who have tried to help
you.
It can't be done!
You have ignored post after post re the use of the F5-SB28 combo and the
ability of AF-S lenses to focus fast and accurately and apparently have
swallowed the BS of Rockwell and SMS hook line & sinker.
Therefore, you need to please run (don't walk) right out and buy a 5D and
the appropriate complement of "L" lenses, then all will be right with the
world (at least yours -- we can hope).
Bob


From: ASAAR on
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:58:25 -0800, nospam wrote:

>> I guess a clock with no battery is right twice a day,
>> and so are you.
>
> he rarely does that well.

I also wouldn't give him that much credit. Many people today have
never seen a watch or clock lacking an AM/PM indicator, or one that
keeps military/24hr time. So today's stopped clocks may be said to
be right once a day. Alas, SMS rarely does even that well. Far,
far more rare would be any admissions of error or deception. :)

From: Floyd L. Davidson on
frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>nospam wrote:
><snip>
>> they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at some
>> focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
>> there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in crop
>> mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better than
>> say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
>Really? How do you work that one out?
>With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that in
>crop mode, the result will be very similar to 6mp APS-c
>sesnor dslrs.

The characteristics of the sensor aren't going to change
just because only 5M of the 12M pixels are being used.

If it has lower noise and greater dynamic range at full
frame, it will in DX mode too. And it should be just
as able to go to ISO 6400...

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd(a)apaflo.com
From: nospam on
In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
> <snip>
> > they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at some
> > focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
> > there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in crop
> > mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better than
> > say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
> >
> Really? How do you work that one out?
> With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that in crop mode, the
> result will be very similar to 6mp APS-c sesnor dslrs.

with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will be pretty much
the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
the same.

the sensor in the d3 is much better than the ones in the d40/50/70.
there will be a *lot* less noise at higher isos and it will probably be
noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.
From: frederick on
nospam wrote:
> In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>
>> nospam wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at some
>>> focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
>>> there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in crop
>>> mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better than
>>> say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
>>>
>> Really? How do you work that one out?
>> With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that in crop mode, the
>> result will be very similar to 6mp APS-c sesnor dslrs.
>
> with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will be pretty much
> the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
> the same.
>
> the sensor in the d3 is much better than the ones in the d40/50/70.
> there will be a *lot* less noise at higher isos and it will probably be
> noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
> not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
> in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
> a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.


I just don't believe that wrt noise performance.
Look at D3 and D300 raw images _not_ converted in CaptureNX, and they
aren't as noise-free as some would like to think.