From: jean on

"nospam" <nospam(a)nospam.invalid> a �crit dans le message de
news:031220071732468665%nospam(a)nospam.invalid...
> In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>
> > nospam wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at
some
> > > focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
> > > there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in
crop
> > > mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better
than
> > > say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
> > >
> > Really? How do you work that one out?
> > With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that in crop mode, the
> > result will be very similar to 6mp APS-c sesnor dslrs.
>
> with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will be pretty much
> the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
> the same.
>
> the sensor in the d3 is much better than the ones in the d40/50/70.
> there will be a *lot* less noise at higher isos and it will probably be
> noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
> not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
> in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
> a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.

While all Nikons "may" be better according to some, an "exit poll" by camera
make on PBase yields the following:

40D 8,430
1DS mkIII 6
1D MkIII 111,462
400D 312,797
30D 793,794
1D MkIIN 207,749
5D 694,421
20Da 583
350D 1,145,996
1DS MkII 97,096
20D 2,525,611
1D MkII 700,960
300D 1,338,749
1DS 47,474
D60 184,317

total: 8,169,445



D3 22
D300 132
D40x 14,313
D40 35,991
D80 265,573
D2Xs 73,990
D200 1,007,478
D50 436,346
D70s 376,216
D2Hs 21,593
D2x 406,700
D70 1,629,296
D2h 189,434
D100 506,969

total: 4,964,053

Either Canon users take more pictures with fewer cameras or Nikon users take
fewer pictures with more cameras but I think it's a good indication of the
number of cameras sold which leads to the question: why does Canon sell more
cameras?

Jean



From: frederick on
jean wrote:
> "nospam" <nospam(a)nospam.invalid> a �crit dans le message de
> news:031220071732468665%nospam(a)nospam.invalid...
>> In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>>
>>> nospam wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at
> some
>>>> focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
>>>> there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in
> crop
>>>> mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better
> than
>>>> say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
>>>>
>>> Really? How do you work that one out?
>>> With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that in crop mode, the
>>> result will be very similar to 6mp APS-c sesnor dslrs.
>> with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will be pretty much
>> the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
>> the same.
>>
>> the sensor in the d3 is much better than the ones in the d40/50/70.
>> there will be a *lot* less noise at higher isos and it will probably be
>> noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
>> not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
>> in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
>> a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.
>
> While all Nikons "may" be better according to some, an "exit poll" by camera
> make on PBase yields the following:
>
> 40D 8,430
> 1DS mkIII 6
> 1D MkIII 111,462
> 400D 312,797
> 30D 793,794
> 1D MkIIN 207,749
> 5D 694,421
> 20Da 583
> 350D 1,145,996
> 1DS MkII 97,096
> 20D 2,525,611
> 1D MkII 700,960
> 300D 1,338,749
> 1DS 47,474
> D60 184,317
>
> total: 8,169,445
>
>
>
> D3 22
> D300 132
> D40x 14,313
> D40 35,991
> D80 265,573
> D2Xs 73,990
> D200 1,007,478
> D50 436,346
> D70s 376,216
> D2Hs 21,593
> D2x 406,700
> D70 1,629,296
> D2h 189,434
> D100 506,969
>
> total: 4,964,053
>
> Either Canon users take more pictures with fewer cameras or Nikon users take
> fewer pictures with more cameras but I think it's a good indication of the
> number of cameras sold which leads to the question: why does Canon sell more
> cameras?
>
> Jean
>
>
>
Lately (2007) they haven't been in Japan.
The rest of the world? Wait and see.
From: Floyd L. Davidson on
frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>nospam wrote:
>> In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>>
>>> nospam wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at some
>>>> focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
>>>> there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in crop
>>>> mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better than
>>>> say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
>>>>
>>> Really? How do you work that one out?
>>> With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that
>>> in crop mode, the result will be very similar to 6mp
>>> APS-c sesnor dslrs.
>> with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will
>> be pretty much
>> the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
>> the same. the sensor in the d3 is much better than the
>> ones in the d40/50/70. there will be a *lot* less
>> noise at higher isos and it will probably be
>> noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
>> not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
>> in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
>> a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.
>
>I just don't believe that wrt noise performance.
>Look at D3 and D300 raw images _not_ converted in
>CaptureNX, and they aren't as noise-free as some would
>like to think.

When UFRAW added the ability to convert D3 images, I
downloaded several NEF files to give it a whirl. I had
no problem at all generating images that looked the same
as had been done with Nikon's software.

They *are* as noise-free as has been advertized. ISO
3200 is mind boggling. But what really blew me away was
that not only was 6400 very useable, but 12800 and 25600
were vastly better than the 1600 and 3200 (Hi-1 and
Hi-2) on a D2x.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd(a)apaflo.com
From: frederick on
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
> frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>> In article <1196725079.169079(a)ftpsrv1>, frederick <lost(a)sea.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nospam wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> they vignette, except some dx lenses *will* cover the full area at some
>>>>> focal lengths. the d3 can switch into cropped dx mode, but since
>>>>> there's 12 megapixels for the entire frame, only 5 will be used in crop
>>>>> mode. still, the result is going to be very good, and much better than
>>>>> say a 6 megapixel d40, d50 or d70.
>>>>>
>>>> Really? How do you work that one out?
>>>> With similar pixel density, I have little doubt that
>>>> in crop mode, the result will be very similar to 6mp
>>>> APS-c sesnor dslrs.
>>> with a 1 megapixel difference, the image quality will
>>> be pretty much
>>> the same if both sensors were the same. the key is that they're not
>>> the same. the sensor in the d3 is much better than the
>>> ones in the d40/50/70. there will be a *lot* less
>>> noise at higher isos and it will probably be
>>> noticable at lower isos too. and then there's the other stuff that's
>>> not directly related to image quality but can still make a difference
>>> in obtaining a decent photo, such as a much more capapble autofocus or
>>> a frame rate that can keep up with fast action.
>> I just don't believe that wrt noise performance.
>> Look at D3 and D300 raw images _not_ converted in
>> CaptureNX, and they aren't as noise-free as some would
>> like to think.
>
> When UFRAW added the ability to convert D3 images, I
> downloaded several NEF files to give it a whirl. I had
> no problem at all generating images that looked the same
> as had been done with Nikon's software.
>
> They *are* as noise-free as has been advertized. ISO
> 3200 is mind boggling. But what really blew me away was
> that not only was 6400 very useable, but 12800 and 25600
> were vastly better than the 1600 and 3200 (Hi-1 and
> Hi-2) on a D2x.
>
Ahh - the D2x.
I'll give you that the D3 and D300 are good for noise.
But I don't think that they're in a new league.
Comparing to a D2x gives false promise I think.
5d and 1dIII images are pretty darned good at high iso as well, but sure
the D3 looks a little better even. The D300 and 40d look matched for IQ.

One thing I noted with D300 raw files converted with no NR is that the
noise cleans up very well even with free "Noiseware" community edition.
The cleaned up jpegs from raw looked better than with NR in CaptureNX,
and a lot better than ex-camera jpegs.
From: David J Taylor on
jean wrote:
[]
> Either Canon users take more pictures with fewer cameras or Nikon
> users take fewer pictures with more cameras but I think it's a good
> indication of the number of cameras sold which leads to the question:
> why does Canon sell more cameras?
>
> Jean

They used to mainly because of better advertising and marketing.

Cheers,
David