From: sw2U on
In article <46d6e466$0$27214$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>,
scharf.steven(a)geemail.com says...
> sw2U wrote:
>
> > I get the impression Sanyo is better at making batteries than at
> > marketing them.
>
> It's tough to market by other than numbers. Camera makers sell
> megapixels, battery makers sell mAH, CPU makers sell MHz and were only
> forced into selling CPUs based partially on power consumption and
> thermals by companies like Transmeta.
>
> Costco tends to have astute purchasing people, as well as a higher
> educated customer base, as well as not stocking 100 different choices
> like Fry's. It's the perfect place for eneloops, plus Costco forces
> their suppliers to provide good bundles.
>

I agree with all your points. Alas, the Costco in my area doesn't
carry Eneloops, at least not so far. I did buy a Panasonic charger
with 4 Panasonic AA's and 2 Panasonic AAA's there a year and a half
ago, and they've been the best regular NIMH batteries I've had.

The Amazon 8-Eneloops for $19.95 deal Thomas Veldhouse mentioned
(thanks, Thomas) sounds like a good deal. I will probably order
from there.

--
sw2U
From: John Turco on
ASAAR wrote:
>
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:23:12 -0700, SMS wrote:

<heavily edited, for brevity>

> > On the other hand, it would be a big cost savings to the manufacturer if
> > they could just tell the user 'go buy some low self-discharge batteries
> > and a charger.' This is what they currently do on the low end P&S
> > non-ultra-compact cameras, and a handful of higher end P&Ss like the
> > Canon S5.
>
> Yes, and some other larger high end P&Ss like Fuji's S9100 and
> even some DSLRs. Funny that you didn't think of this sooner. :)


Hello, ASAAR:

You >did< nail Steven M. Sharf, on that one! DSLR's aren't exactly
lacking for "real estate," where AA cells are concerned.


Cordially,
John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse on
SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
>> Problem is not the battery technology, the problem is the flimsy door. If a
>> device handles AA alkaline, but you chose to use AA NiMH, is it somehow a
>> fault of AA alkaline batteries if the door wears out? No, it is an
>> under-engineered door.
>
> Yes, it would be more accurate to say that the real issue is with AA
> batteries in general, not specifically with NiMH AA batteries. However
> with cameras it's usually the case that the user is either using NiMH
> rechargeable batteries or Li-Ion rechargeable batteries. In any case,
> I've explicitly added a footnote to each advantage of each type of
> battery when it relates to AA batteries in general, as opposed to NiMH
> batteries specifically.
>

NO -- it is a problem with underengineering .... you are so obtuse sometimes.
The door should have been built to handle opening and closing during a typical
usage and lifespan with safety margin [typically 2x] included. If the camera
is built to take AA, then it should be built to withstand the door usage that
AA may require [even if NiMH batteries are available that would potentially
reduce the number of cycles on the door].


> BTW, just picked up a second pack of eneloops at Costco today. I want to
> use them in all the cordless mice in the house, the Wii remotes, and
> flashlights.
>

I have them in clocks, mice, keyboards, flashlights (led), and even some
devices that use C & D batteries via adapters. Oh yes, my Harmony 670 remote
gets four AAA eneloops ;-)

The ONLY thing I use alkaline AA or AAA in now is my weather radio.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

From: Thomas T. Veldhouse on
ASAAR <caught(a)22.com> wrote:
> LED) included really shouldn't be factored into the price, nor
> should the C and D cell adapters, which most people won't use. That
> gives you 12 eneloops for $26.49, a fair price, but not a very good
> price. If you have no use for all 8 AA and 4 AAA cells, that makes
> it an even poorer deal unless you can sell some to a friend.
>

12 eneloop batteries for $26.49 is a VERY GOOD price. Where can you find them
for less in either AA or AAA? Like I said, about the best price I have seend
for 8 is $19.99 from Amazon which is about $29.99 for 12 batteries ... about
$2.50 more.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

From: SMS on
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

> NO -- it is a problem with underengineering .... you are so obtuse sometimes.
> The door should have been built to handle opening and closing during a typical
> usage and lifespan with safety margin [typically 2x] included. If the camera
> is built to take AA, then it should be built to withstand the door usage that
> AA may require [even if NiMH batteries are available that would potentially
> reduce the number of cycles on the door].

It is a problem with under-engineering that extends across product
types, and is not limited to cameras. However most product types are not
ones that can cost hundreds, or in some cases thousands, of dollars.

_Of course_ the camera manufacturer should have engineered the doors
better to withstand thousands of door cycles, but they didn't. They
should also have engineered it to withstand minor drops, but they
didn't. At least on many of the cameras the door is replaceable, and the
design is such that the tabs are on the door, rather than on the camera
body, but there are designs where the failure occurs on the camera
rather than the door. This is where duct tape comes in.

In any case, the statement on the web site is accurate. It's an AA
problem, not a chemistry issue of NiMH versus Li-Ion or Li-Po.

Why do you think that so few D-SLRs use AA batteries--only a few low-end
models, and none from the top tier manufacturers. The could certainly
have enlarged the camera a bit to hold six AA cells and have eliminated
the expense of providing a charger and batteries as they do on their low
end point and shoot models. Part of the reason is performance, but
another is that they know that the D-SLR buyer isn't going to put up
with the reliability issues. At least on the vertical grips they use a
battery tray for the AA cells which eliminates the mechanical
reliability problem, and also makes it very quick to swap full trays of
AA cells without fumbling with 12 batteries.