From: SMS on
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> ASAAR <caught(a)22.com> wrote:
>> LED) included really shouldn't be factored into the price, nor
>> should the C and D cell adapters, which most people won't use. That
>> gives you 12 eneloops for $26.49, a fair price, but not a very good
>> price. If you have no use for all 8 AA and 4 AAA cells, that makes
>> it an even poorer deal unless you can sell some to a friend.
>>
>
> 12 eneloop batteries for $26.49 is a VERY GOOD price. Where can you find them
> for less in either AA or AAA? Like I said, about the best price I have seend
> for 8 is $19.99 from Amazon which is about $29.99 for 12 batteries ... about
> $2.50 more.

LOL, of course it's a good price, especially if you can actually use the
AAA cells in the bundle. Actually I wish the bundle had six and six, as
I have a lot of portable devices that use AAA cells. I ended up buying
two of the bundles.

The charger is fine. It's slow but for most people charging is done
overnight anyway, and it's very small. They probably did a low-current
charger to extend the battery life, which is how they are able to claim
1000 cycles.
From: SMS on
John Turco wrote:

> Hello, ASAAR:
>
> You >did< nail Steven M. Sharf, on that one! DSLR's aren't exactly
> lacking for "real estate," where AA cells are concerned.

Weight and size is an issue even on D-SLRs, but of course the reasons
that almost every D-SLR on the market uses Li-Ion batteries go way
beyond the desire of the engineers to minimize the weight and size of
the body.

Never buy a D-SLR that doesn't use Li-Ion packs. If you insist on AA
capability as well, buy one that can use AA batteries in an optional
vertical grip. Worst case, ensure that at least RCR-V3 batteries will
work (Sigma did this on their ill-fated D-SLRs).

Unfortunately only Canon provides the vertical grips even on their entry
level D-SLRs, but after-market manufacturers have filled the void for Nikon.

Vertical grips that can take AA batteries give you the best of both
worlds. You can usually also use one or two li-ion batteries in them
instead of six to eight AA batteries, but when you're out in the middle
of nowhere away from AC or DC power (as so many AA battery aficionados
apparently spend so much time) you can pick up some AA alkaline cells at
the country store that you are walking or bicycling past.

Vertical grip list:

Canon
-----
20D: BG-E2
30D: BG-E2
40D: BG-E2N (also works on 20D and 30D)
XT (350D), XTi (400D): BG-E3
5D: BG-E4:

Nikon
-----
D70: HVPG-D70 (after-market)
D50: Merkury Innovations (after-market)
D80: MB-D80
D200: MB-D200
D300: MB-D10


I'll add this list to the web site, along with more information on
D-SLRs and AA batteries, since there appears to be some confusion about it.
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse on
SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>
> In any case, the statement on the web site is accurate. It's an AA
> problem, not a chemistry issue of NiMH versus Li-Ion or Li-Po.
>

It is 100% inaccurate. It is not an AA problem, it is a problem with the
door. I have seen poor engineering battery doors of all sorts of products
using all differing battery form factors. Do not attribute to the battery
that is 100% the fault of the device engineering.

> Why do you think that so few D-SLRs use AA batteries--only a few low-end
> models, and none from the top tier manufacturers.

So few DSLRs use AA batteries because LiIon is lighter and relative to the
price of the camera, replacing LiIon batteries when they wear out [from use or
disuse] is a minor cost. I recall the F100 used AA batteries and I never had
any trouble with the door ... ever ... and that was before low-self discharge
NiMH batteries ... so I had to change the batteries relatively frequently.

You do note that DSLRs do NOT have in-camera charging, right? If I was a
guessing man [and today I am], I would guess that is because they don't want
to use internal space on charging circuitry and also they do NOT want charging
meltdowns inside the camera, which has proven to be fairly common judging by
all the LiIon battery recalls over the last couple of years.


> Part of the reason is performance, but
> another is that they know that the D-SLR buyer isn't going to put up
> with the reliability issues. At least on the vertical grips they use a
> battery tray for the AA cells which eliminates the mechanical
> reliability problem, and also makes it very quick to swap full trays of
> AA cells without fumbling with 12 batteries.

Performance? I think NiMH can pump more current than LiIon can. LiIon has a
high internal resistance and will really heat up if you try to push that same
current. The D200 takes either two proprietary LiIon batteries or six AA
batteries. If you use AA NiMH batteries [even the low self discharge
variety], you will have a lot more capacity than you will with the LiIon
cells, but it comes at the expense of weight.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

From: Thomas T. Veldhouse on
SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>
> The charger is fine. It's slow but for most people charging is done
> overnight anyway, and it's very small. They probably did a low-current
> charger to extend the battery life, which is how they are able to claim
> 1000 cycles.

Most lower capacity batteries claim 1000 cycles, so I suspect it has nothing
to do with the charger; afterall, the vast majority of people out there will
NOT be using the Sanyo Eneloop charger.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

From: SMS on
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>> In any case, the statement on the web site is accurate. It's an AA
>> problem, not a chemistry issue of NiMH versus Li-Ion or Li-Po.
>>
>
> It is 100% inaccurate. It is not an AA problem, it is a problem with the
> door. I have seen poor engineering battery doors of all sorts of products
> using all differing battery form factors. Do not attribute to the battery
> that is 100% the fault of the device engineering.

Okay, while I think you're being deliberately obtuse, let's just say
that i's a design problem that is indirectly related to the type of
battery the manufacturer has chosen to use.