From: SMS on
Ron Hunter wrote:

> My brother drives a Honda Civic Hybrid. He has had the car for a few
> years now, and I don't recall him having to replace the batteries, yet.
> I will probably hear him screaming about the price from here, even
> though he lives 300 miles away. Grin.
> The batteries are used as 'mildly' as possible to prolong their life.

I'm sure they did the same thing as Toyota on the Prius, in programming
the micro-controller for maximum battery life rather than maximum fuel
economy. On the European and Japanese Prius there is a button to press
to allow the batteries to drain further down to increase the amount of
time you're operating on electricity. Some U.S. Prius owners have added
the button but it voids the warranty on the batteries.

The plug-in-hybrid conversions for the Prius use Li-Ion, but these are
essentially turning the Prius into an electric car for 40 miles or so
per charge, and are practical only for fleet use. After four years or so
the Li-Ion batteries will have to be replaced at a cost of several
thousand dollars. Depending on how much the electricity and gasoline
cost, it can be slightly break-even, but it's unlikely.

Also remember that it's the auto manufacturer that gets to determine
when warranty replacement is warranted. You don't get warranty
replacement just because your batteries start losing capacity, it's
similar to the way the auto manufacturers get away with denying warranty
coverage for oil burning..."oh, one quart every 3000 miles, that's
_normal_."
From: Ron Hunter on
Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Ron Hunter <rphunter(a)charter.net> wrote:
>> My brother drives a Honda Civic Hybrid. He has had the car for a few
>> years now, and I don't recall him having to replace the batteries, yet.
>> I will probably hear him screaming about the price from here, even
>> though he lives 300 miles away. Grin.
>> The batteries are used as 'mildly' as possible to prolong their life.
>
> The Civic Hybrid uses NiMH batteries, so you would expect them to last
> longer than if the Civic used lithium-ion batteries.
>

Either way, it isn't going to be cheap to replace them, unless the
manufacturer, or government, is subsidizing it.
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse on
SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
> Huh, where do you get 4x the capacity for eneloop?
>
> Here's my math:
>
> eneloop: 6 x 2000mAH x 1.2V = 14.4WH
> 1900mAH EN-EL3e: 1 x 1900mAH * 7.4V =14.1W
>

You are correct, I
forgot to include the voltage ratio to get a proper comparison. Relatively,
your comparison is correct. But, you can see 2500mAh or 2700mAh batteries
will give 20%+ more capacity, at the expense of weight of course ... and
self-discharge in the case of the higher capacity NiMH batteries.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

From: SMS on
Ron Hunter wrote:
> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>> Ron Hunter <rphunter(a)charter.net> wrote:
>>> My brother drives a Honda Civic Hybrid. He has had the car for a few
>>> years now, and I don't recall him having to replace the batteries,
>>> yet. I will probably hear him screaming about the price from here,
>>> even though he lives 300 miles away. Grin.
>>> The batteries are used as 'mildly' as possible to prolong their life.
>>
>> The Civic Hybrid uses NiMH batteries, so you would expect them to last
>> longer than if the Civic used lithium-ion batteries.
>>
>
> Either way, it isn't going to be cheap to replace them, unless the
> manufacturer, or government, is subsidizing it.

The fuel economy of the Prius and Civic hybrids is largely a myth unless
you're doing very little freeway driving.

Batteries are counter-productive for freeway driving, adding weight for
no MPG gain. A gasoline-only Prius or Civic would have better actual
freeway fuel economy than the hybrid version.

What drove Prius and Civic hybrid sales in California was the
experimental carpool lane exemption for hybrids that get over 45 MPG.
There are no more permits available, and the program is unlikely to be
renewed due to the carpool lane over-crowding (which the hybrids are
only a small part of).
From: John Turco on
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
>
> ASAAR <caught(a)22.com> wrote:
> > LED) included really shouldn't be factored into the price, nor
> > should the C and D cell adapters, which most people won't use. That
> > gives you 12 eneloops for $26.49, a fair price, but not a very good
> > price. If you have no use for all 8 AA and 4 AAA cells, that makes
> > it an even poorer deal unless you can sell some to a friend.
> >
>
> 12 eneloop batteries for $26.49 is a VERY GOOD price. Where can you find them
> for less in either AA or AAA? Like I said, about the best price I have seend
> for 8 is $19.99 from Amazon which is about $29.99 for 12 batteries ... about
> $2.50 more.


Hello, Thomas:

Locally, Wal-Mart has 4-packs of Kodak "pre-charged" (i.e., eneloop
equivalent) Ni-MH AA cells, at $7.88 USD, apiece. Three of those only
add up to $23.64, which beats Costco's deal, by nearly $3.

Four would be $31.52 (16 batteries); that's still better than your
12/$29.99 Amazon reference.


Cordially,
John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>