From: SMS on 30 Aug 2007 19:28
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Problem is not the battery technology, the problem is the flimsy door. If a
> device handles AA alkaline, but you chose to use AA NiMH, is it somehow a
> fault of AA alkaline batteries if the door wears out? No, it is an
> under-engineered door.
Yes, it would be more accurate to say that the real issue is with AA
batteries in general, not specifically with NiMH AA batteries. However
with cameras it's usually the case that the user is either using NiMH
rechargeable batteries or Li-Ion rechargeable batteries. In any case,
I've explicitly added a footnote to each advantage of each type of
battery when it relates to AA batteries in general, as opposed to NiMH
BTW, just picked up a second pack of eneloops at Costco today. I want to
use them in all the cordless mice in the house, the Wii remotes, and
From: John Turco on 31 Aug 2007 10:18
<edited, for brevity>
> A couple of months ago (approx.), SMS was comparing the costs of
> getting a charger with a couple of batteries, and as usual distorted
> the prices completely in favor of Li-Ion over NiMH, claiming that
> you'd pay about $50 for a NiMH solution, about double what he was
> quoting for Li-Ion prices. This despite the fact that many stores
> sell chargers with NiMH batteries for $20 to $35, and one person
> even posted that he found a Duracell charger with batteries for
> (IIRC) on sale for $15 at Walgreens. So now SMS, to drum up website
> traffic, posts info. about this Eneloop kit that includes 12 Eneloop
> batteries for $26.49. Let's see if he remembers this the next time
> he quotes battery/charger prices.
Wal-Mart has excellent prices, on low self-discharge Ni-MH AA cells,
from Kodak, Sanyo and Rayovac. Some are bundled with chargers, as
The Kodak brand seems to be the best bargain, and that's the one
I've bought, thus far.
John Turco <jtur(a)concentric.net>
From: SMS on 31 Aug 2007 12:44
> I think this has been reported in some other forums, but Costco is now
> selling eneloops. The one near me just got them.
> Costco now sells a Sanyo eneloop "Power Pack" consisting of eight AA
> cells (2000mAH), four AAA cells (800mAH), two C size adapters, two D
> size adapters, and a charger for $26.49.
> Go to the web site "http://batterydata.com" and at the top click on
> "New: Sanyo eneloop Batteries Now at Costco." I've added a picture of
> the product as well.
> "Earth's Independent Source for Unbiased Digital Camera Battery
One thing I noticed about the Sanyo NC-MQN05 charger is that it's
From: Dave Cohen on 31 Aug 2007 14:50
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>>> The technology for lower self-discharge has been around for a long
>>> time, but it reduces the available volume for the battery components
>>> that increase the mAHs. NiMH batteries have been marketed based on
>>> mAHs rather than self-discharge rate (which users probably don't
>>> understand all that well). Logically you'd expect a mass migration to
>>> low self-discharge NiMH batteries, but the typical person selecting
>>> batteries at the store is going mainly by mAH and price, and maybe a
>>> little on brand recognition.
>> Low self-discharge technology has been around a long time?
> Yes, the reason for the high self-discharge rate has been known for a
> long time, as well as the way to lower the self-discharge.
> Can you please
>> supply a citation?
> Google is your friend. Search for "nimh improved separator self discharge".
> Of course "a long time" is all relative, but the way to reduce
> self-discharge was known all the way back in the 20th century, even
> though the patents for it weren't granted until 2002.
So the first NiMH I bought, Quest low capacity (I think around 1400mah)
should have a very low self discharge, but they don't.
I think this whole post is a waste of time, take a look at
http://www.rayovac.com/recharge/index.shtml then read their faq,
particularly the one about memory effect.
To answer Thomas, yes anything can be got on-line, problem is postage. I
can avoid that by exceeding the $25 for free postage from my favorite
Amazon. I thought I got the licensing info from the internet but can't
locate the post.
It's hard to quote Walmart info since they don't seem to be consistent
either store to store or in the same store over time. This is true of
many of these discount outfits. Solution is to grab bargains when you
see them even if you don't have an immediate need.
From: SMS on 31 Aug 2007 15:22
Dave Cohen wrote:
> So the first NiMH I bought, Quest low capacity (I think around 1400mah)
> should have a very low self discharge, but they don't.
Why do you think that?
Batteries are made as cheaply as possible. The point is that the reasons
for high self-discharge of Ni-Cad batteries and NiMH batteries have
always been known, and the way to lower the self-discharge was been
known for a long time prior to the eneloop and other low-discharge
batteries appearing on the market.
It's a trade-off to build a low self-discharge cell in terms of both
manufacturing cost and capacity. Sanyo believed that users would pay a
higher price and accept lower capacity, in exchange for lower
self-discharge. If they can educate the general public on the benefits,
then they may be right.
> To answer Thomas, yes anything can be got on-line, problem is postage. I
> can avoid that by exceeding the $25 for free postage from my favorite
> Amazon. I thought I got the licensing info from the internet but can't
> locate the post.
Yes, Amazon tends to be the lowest price for most items, especially with
their free shipping. Usually only Costco and Sam's Club beats Amazon.
The Costco deal on eneloops is very good. I'm slowly replacing most of
the batteries in devices at my house with eneloop. Wireless mice, remote
controls, game controllers (those Wii controllers really eat batteries),