From: Neil Harrington on

"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:yY6dnXdZBaZEFSvXnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Neil Harrington" <not(a)home.today> wrote in message
> news:dqOdnbgjloA70CvXnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:gcadnTKTJ6igCSnXnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ZdednRcmdaTX3CnXnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4ab3366f$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4ab10bc3$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Douglas Johnson" <post(a)classtech.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:bm0la513ptifqd2htorhffbk4a24j9sbtg(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> .....Can I blame the liberals for it? After all, it is a
>>>>>>>>>> socialist idea. Can
>>>>>>>>>> anyone get food simply by putting their feet on a supermarkets
>>>>>>>>>> property? If
>>>>>>>>>> so, then would you go for the idea today that food should be
>>>>>>>>>> socialized? How
>>>>>>>>>> about getting a room for the night by simply setting foot on a
>>>>>>>>>> hotel's
>>>>>>>>>> property?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you have a heart attack. The paramedics show up. Should they
>>>>>>>>> require proof
>>>>>>>>> of citizenship or ability to pay before starting CPR? Or before
>>>>>>>>> they transport
>>>>>>>>> you to the hospital? Should the hospital require it before they
>>>>>>>>> treat you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my world, yes, yes, yes. Everyone (all 300 million of us
>>>>>>>> citizens) should have a government ID card, and/or a chip implanted
>>>>>>>> in us that identifies us as US citizens in good standing, and if we
>>>>>>>> are sick, then the chip should get us the treatment we need.
>>>>>>>> Today's technology is more than adequate to accomplish this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeez. Ever read 1984?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't remember whether they had illegal aliens living off the dole
>>>>>> in "1984".
>>>>>
>>>>> *whooosh!*
>>>>
>>>> Where's the "whooosh!," Bob?
>>>>
>>>> Most of us, adults at least, already carry ID routinely. I can't
>>>> legally drive my car without it, can you? I can't legally carry a
>>>> pistol without it, either. Of course if you live in Australia or
>>>> someplace like that you can't do the latter anyway, but there you are:
>>>> having to carry ID doesn't take away a right that I have and you don't
>>>> whether you carry ID or not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Nonsense! - this is an unenforceable law....Nobody knows what I have in
>>> my pocket, and they aren't likely to ever know. I have been carrying a
>>> gun all of my adult life, and I have always refused to get a permit for
>>> it. Why? Because such permits are unconstitutional, and therefore
>>> illegal.
>>
>> I don't think so, Bill. "[T]he right to keep and bear arms shall not be
>> infringed," the Second Amendment says, but that does not mean it cannot
>> be regulated, and in fact such regulation is also implied in the
>> amendment. The requirement for a permit may be a reasonable type of
>> regulation. It also may NOT be reasonable, depending on the details.
>>
>> Much of this depends on where you live. The law varies from state to
>> state, even from city to city, and in some cases I believe the law is so
>> restrictive, or so restrictively enforced, that it actually is
>> unconstitutional. On the other hand, Vermont has no state law at all
>> regarding concealed carry, except to say that a gun may not be carried
>> for criminal purposes. That is about as liberal as you can get (here
>> using "liberal" in its original sense of "free," not leftist).
>
> Yes, and they should compare the crime rate in Burlington with that in New
> York City.....

Or Washington D.C. But I don't know whether Burlington has any restriction
on carrying. There are no STATE laws in Vermont restricting carry (other
than "for criminal purposes") but I've read that some cities there may have
ordinances that restrict it.

But in any case, it is certainly true that our three most northeastern
states, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine, all have far, far less restrictive
gun control than does Canada -- and all three states have lower homicide
rates than the Canadian province(s) just across the border.


From: David Ruether on

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl(a)gol.com> wrote in message news:cYSdncr3AogmcirXnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote:
>> "David J. Littleboy" <davidjl(a)gol.com> wrote:
>>> "Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:

>>>>> I would eliminate capitol gains taxes permanently.

>>>> And replace it with straight income tax. Change that 15% tax rate for
>>>> capital gains to 35% for straight income tax.

>>> Seconded. --
>>> David J. Littleboy

>> This is the most regressive kind of tax possible. Think about it.

> One of us misunderstands. My understanding here is that Ray assumes that the tax rates are progressive, but that the folks are
> complaining about capital gains tax are already in the top bracket.

I may not have "plowed" far enough back up into this branch of
this river...;-)

> <Perfectly valid rant about the evils of flat rate taxes ruthlessly snipped.> --
> David J. Littleboy

8^)
As a very low income person, who also managed with lucky
investments to make money on the stock market and elsewhere,
I'm still (as with health care) willing to pay more than I do now
to better equalize the systems so they work better for all...
--DR


From: Bill Graham on

"Father Guido Sarducci" <don(a)novello.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C8E52A8A197BFatherGuido(a)69.16.185.252...
> In message news:7hk7c8F2t5rb9U3(a)mid.individual.net, Christopher Loffredo
> <me(a)privacy.com> said:
>
>> PLONK
>
> B.,
>>
>> However much I (very)-(strongly)-(extremely)-(emphatically) disagree
>> with you on almost anything, I still wouldn't be happy if the debate
>> ended because you got arrested for *any* of the several crimes you are
>> *publicly confessing to* on an *international public forum*!!!!
>>
>> Logic isn't your strongest quality, but do try to stay out of jail for a
>> good part of the rest of your life (and, no, you wouldn't be a *martyr*
>> for your "cause"). You might not realize it, but most of you actions and
>> reasonings are quite silly and really not worth it.
>>
>

I presume you are speaking to me. Logic is my strong point.

I am just trying to get converts to my cause. I want everyone to take
his/her streets back by putting fake and/or garage sale plates on their
automobiles or motor vehicles when they park, so their parking tickets will
go to never-never land as did mine for years and years. The streets belong
to the people!! - Take them back!!

Or, you can continue to be a woos, and pay your liberal government for
stealing your streets from you and renting them back to you.

From: Bill Graham on

"Neil Harrington" <not(a)home.today> wrote in message
news:VLudnSvhb8bERiXXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:yY6dnXdZBaZEFSvXnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>
>> "Neil Harrington" <not(a)home.today> wrote in message
>> news:dqOdnbgjloA70CvXnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:gcadnTKTJ6igCSnXnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:ZdednRcmdaTX3CnXnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4ab3366f$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4ab10bc3$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Douglas Johnson" <post(a)classtech.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:bm0la513ptifqd2htorhffbk4a24j9sbtg(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> .....Can I blame the liberals for it? After all, it is a
>>>>>>>>>>> socialist idea. Can
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone get food simply by putting their feet on a supermarkets
>>>>>>>>>>> property? If
>>>>>>>>>>> so, then would you go for the idea today that food should be
>>>>>>>>>>> socialized? How
>>>>>>>>>>> about getting a room for the night by simply setting foot on a
>>>>>>>>>>> hotel's
>>>>>>>>>>> property?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So you have a heart attack. The paramedics show up. Should they
>>>>>>>>>> require proof
>>>>>>>>>> of citizenship or ability to pay before starting CPR? Or before
>>>>>>>>>> they transport
>>>>>>>>>> you to the hospital? Should the hospital require it before they
>>>>>>>>>> treat you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my world, yes, yes, yes. Everyone (all 300 million of us
>>>>>>>>> citizens) should have a government ID card, and/or a chip
>>>>>>>>> implanted in us that identifies us as US citizens in good
>>>>>>>>> standing, and if we are sick, then the chip should get us the
>>>>>>>>> treatment we need. Today's technology is more than adequate to
>>>>>>>>> accomplish this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeez. Ever read 1984?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't remember whether they had illegal aliens living off the dole
>>>>>>> in "1984".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *whooosh!*
>>>>>
>>>>> Where's the "whooosh!," Bob?
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of us, adults at least, already carry ID routinely. I can't
>>>>> legally drive my car without it, can you? I can't legally carry a
>>>>> pistol without it, either. Of course if you live in Australia or
>>>>> someplace like that you can't do the latter anyway, but there you are:
>>>>> having to carry ID doesn't take away a right that I have and you don't
>>>>> whether you carry ID or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Nonsense! - this is an unenforceable law....Nobody knows what I have in
>>>> my pocket, and they aren't likely to ever know. I have been carrying a
>>>> gun all of my adult life, and I have always refused to get a permit for
>>>> it. Why? Because such permits are unconstitutional, and therefore
>>>> illegal.
>>>
>>> I don't think so, Bill. "[T]he right to keep and bear arms shall not be
>>> infringed," the Second Amendment says, but that does not mean it cannot
>>> be regulated, and in fact such regulation is also implied in the
>>> amendment. The requirement for a permit may be a reasonable type of
>>> regulation. It also may NOT be reasonable, depending on the details.
>>>
>>> Much of this depends on where you live. The law varies from state to
>>> state, even from city to city, and in some cases I believe the law is so
>>> restrictive, or so restrictively enforced, that it actually is
>>> unconstitutional. On the other hand, Vermont has no state law at all
>>> regarding concealed carry, except to say that a gun may not be carried
>>> for criminal purposes. That is about as liberal as you can get (here
>>> using "liberal" in its original sense of "free," not leftist).
>>
>> Yes, and they should compare the crime rate in Burlington with that in
>> New York City.....
>
> Or Washington D.C. But I don't know whether Burlington has any restriction
> on carrying. There are no STATE laws in Vermont restricting carry (other
> than "for criminal purposes") but I've read that some cities there may
> have ordinances that restrict it.
>
> But in any case, it is certainly true that our three most northeastern
> states, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine, all have far, far less
> restrictive gun control than does Canada -- and all three states have
> lower homicide rates than the Canadian province(s) just across the border.
>
The principal is simple and logical. When you make laws against carrying
guns, only the law abiding citizens will obey these laws, and so only the
criminals will carry guns, and the crime rate will go up. When you allow
everyone to carry guns, some percentage of the honest people will do so, and
this is bad news for the criminals, and the crime rates will go down. Or. at
least, the criminals will go elsewhere.

Why the hell the stupid liberals can't see and understand this is beyond me,
but they can't, and haven't been able to for all of my life. There must be
over a thousand reasons why I am not a liberal, and this is just one of
those reasons.

From: Savageduck on
On 2009-09-22 21:19:45 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:

>
> "Father Guido Sarducci" <don(a)novello.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C8E52A8A197BFatherGuido(a)69.16.185.252...
>> In message news:7hk7c8F2t5rb9U3(a)mid.individual.net, Christopher Loffredo
>> <me(a)privacy.com> said:
>>
>>> PLONK
>>
>> B.,
>>>
>>> However much I (very)-(strongly)-(extremely)-(emphatically) disagree
>>> with you on almost anything, I still wouldn't be happy if the debate
>>> ended because you got arrested for *any* of the several crimes you are
>>> *publicly confessing to* on an *international public forum*!!!!
>>>
>>> Logic isn't your strongest quality, but do try to stay out of jail for a
>>> good part of the rest of your life (and, no, you wouldn't be a *martyr*
>>> for your "cause"). You might not realize it, but most of you actions and
>>> reasonings are quite silly and really not worth it.
>>>
>>
>
> I presume you are speaking to me. Logic is my strong point.
>
> I am just trying to get converts to my cause. I want everyone to take
> his/her streets back by putting fake and/or garage sale plates on their
> automobiles or motor vehicles when they park, so their parking tickets
> will go to never-never land as did mine for years and years. The
> streets belong to the people!! - Take them back!!
>
> Or, you can continue to be a woos, and pay your liberal government for
> stealing your streets from you and renting them back to you.

I can visualize vehicles having boots applied &/or being towed from
illegal parking spots all over the country.

Try and retrieve a car with fake plates (read illegal) from an impound
lot when plates don't match VIN.


--
Regards,

Savageduck