From: Douglas Johnson on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote:

>.....Can I blame the liberals for it? After all, it is a socialist idea. Can
>anyone get food simply by putting their feet on a supermarkets property? If
>so, then would you go for the idea today that food should be socialized? How
>about getting a room for the night by simply setting foot on a hotel's

So you have a heart attack. The paramedics show up. Should they require proof
of citizenship or ability to pay before starting CPR? Or before they transport
you to the hospital? Should the hospital require it before they treat you?

I don't think anybody thinks that's a good idea. That changes the discussion
from whether the hospitals should be required to treat to what they should be
required to treat without documentation.

Current Federal law seems pretty reasonable on the subject. From

"The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) requires
any hospital that participates in Medicare (all hospitals in Connecticut do) and
maintains a dedicated emergency department to (1) conduct an �appropriate
screening exam� on anyone who comes to the hospital and asks to be treated and
(2) stabilize any emergency condition it detects. If the hospital does not
stabilize the condition, it can transfer the patient to another facility but
must meet specific conditions before doing so. If it does stabilize the
condition, it can discharge the patient, admit him or her to an inpatient room,
or transfer the patient to another facility without meeting EMTALA's transfer

So they have to evaluate and stabilize any emergency condition. They don't have
to treat every hangnail.

-- Doug
From: David Ruether on

"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote in message news:P-qdnSpS1-lx8DTXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d(a)
> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)> wrote in message news:h8b2q8$5ms$1(a)
>> "Bob G" <mrbobjames(a)> wrote in message news:94a4b97f-52ef-4dbe-935b-5f0597e68566(a)

>>>> What he said was a lie, the health care will be provided to all tax
>>>> payers and illegals are covered under the tax law so will receive free
>>>> health care. Unless it was added all of the bills that have passed did
>>>> not exclude illegals.

>>> I don't know. Have we so lost our humanity that we think illegals are
>>> animals? It's pathetic to hear a President promise to deny health care
>>> to some people in order to appease Republicans.

>> Yes - and that health care would not be "free" in any case, as it now is
>> for many who currently (and expensively for the rest of us) use emergency
>> room facilities in lieu of having a regular (and far less expensive) GP.
>> As a tax-payer and health-care payer, I would much prefer to cover a
>> $100 GP visit than a $1000 ER visit for an "illegal" concealed inside my
>> bills. And I would also prefer that a communicable disease or potentially
>> very serious and expensive condition be caught early through good care.
>> It is short-sighted to see this in "us vs. them" terms when universal
>> health care, including preventive care, helps us all. Or, for those against
>> single payer health care (which is what SS Medicare is - and most are
>> VERY happy with that, and its administrative costs are a small fraction
>> of those of private insurance), look at the statistics. In EVERY country
>> that has a single-payer system of health care, the average life span is
>> greater than ours(!), and the cost of the health care system is less than
>> ours(!). Yet the "know-nothings" hide their heads in the sand and mutter
>> idiotic things like, "socialism"...
>> --DR

> So you think that the only way to improve our health care system is to socialize it? You are ready and willing to completely give
> up on any and all ideas to have a decent privatized health care system here in the US? Why not give real capitalism a chance? If
> you were an MD, would you really want to work for the government? How about a law that makes everybody have a health insurance
> policy, together with opening up the insurance companies to cross state lines and sell their policies to anyone who applies for
> one? A real free enterprise system, IOW.

It is a pleasure to read an opposing post that is reasonable, and especially
civil. I applaud your comments and manner, although I may not agree with
your point of view. I take my health coverage from a "socialized" source, the
single-payer government system with my Medicare plan, and this has proven
far more efficient in terms of overhead, distribution of services, and quality of
treatment compared with conditions that existed before Medicare and current
market conditions for those unlucky enough not to yet have Medicare available.
While a few "tweaks" may help with our current system, it is still so clearly
evident that our highly-touted medical system (which is not available to all),
costs both far more per person and it also results in a very noticeably shorter
average life span than is the case in EVERY other industrialized nation that has
that "boogeyman" of systems, "socialized medicine". Never mind that it really
does work very well, and really doesn't remove any personal control or
choices over anything. It is time to look honestly at all the options (including
ones you suggest) and see what really does or doesn't work the best for
covering the most people and supplying the best care at the most reasonable
cost. The nonsense from the Right has obviously been intended to serve to
prevent this honest discussion - and the stony "lumpishness" demonstrated by
most of the Republicans during Obama's speech illustrates the likely outcome
of all this. It will be the Democrats alone who pass (or not) any important
advances in the area of improving our medical coverage in this country with
worthwhile legislation.

From: Twibil on
On Sep 11, 11:40 am, Savageduck <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}> wrote:
> >> My search for an ugly place continues, though. There must be one somewhere.
> > Ever been to Alabama?
> Try Avenal, California, well described as the rectum of the World. A
> perfect community for the placement of its State Prison.

Trona is worse.

*MUCH* worse!
From: DRS on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote in message
> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)> wrote in message
> news:h8b0uc$2ai$1(a)


> So does this mean that you want me to give up my fight against
> socializing the health professions in this country?

America's health professions are not being socialised, you know this because
every time you cut and paste it you are shot to pieces, but you just keeping
repeating it ad nauseum because you are incapable of learning from your

From: Bill Graham on

"Rol_Lei Nut" <Speleo_Karstlenscap(a)> wrote in message
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> "SPAM.WATCH" <fart(a)> wrote in message
>> news:h8b588$irb$1(a)
>>> USA is both the third largest nation, and yet is still a third rate
>>> nation.
>> Easy to say by someone who has never been both here and overseas. I have
>> been to most continents, and I can tell you that I am now living (Salem,
>> Oregon) in one of the best places in the world. The weather is beautiful,
>> trees everywhere, and our supers are overflowing with fresh fruits and
>> veggies, and wonderfully fresh meats, too. My health care is top drawer
>> all the way, too. I am one hour's drive from the Pacific ocean, and
>> about an hour in the other direction to mountains and great skiing. I am
>> an amateur musician and there are so many good bands in this area that I
>> have trouble deciding which ones to participate in. I could play anything
>> from classical to Dixieland every night of the week. I have been to
>> Europe, Australia, and Japan and China, and there has been no place where
>> the living is as nice as I have it right now. My only real fear is that
>> the liberal socialists will trash it for my grandchildren. But I have
>> lived top drawer all the way.
> Your description of "paradise" could be of thousands of places around the
> world. In the places you've been to, you obviously haven't had the time,
> desire, open-mindedness or perspicacity to see their good sides.

Oh, I saw their good sides, all right. They just weren't near as good as the
"good sides" here at home.....Sorry about that.