From: Neil Harrington on

"Wilba" <usenet(a)CUTTHISimago.com.au> wrote in message
news:0088e3f0$0$26898$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> Wilba wrote:
>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it had something to do with which side the shells were ejected
>>>> from when the rifle action was worked....It would be very annoying to
>>>> the driver if the hot shell casings were ejected into his face while he
>>>> was trying to get away from the bad guys.....
>>>
>>> But in that photo the driver is on the ejector side.
>>
>> I don't know how you can tell....different rifles eject the shells to
>> different sides.....As I remember, the M1 (used by US soldiers in WW-II,
>> ejected the shells to the right, but I have seen other guns that ejected
>> them to the left side....
>
> As a general rule firearms are designed to eject on the opposite side from
> most shooter's faces. In all my years of civilian and military shooting, I
> don't recall any left-side ejection weapons - not saying they don't exist,
> just that they aren't common enough for me to remember ever seeing any.

I've never seen any long guns that ejected to the left, but certain Walther
pistols did. Generally a pistol will eject to whichever side the extractor
is on, and usually that's on the right. Lugers and broomhandle Mausers had
the extractor on top of the bolt, and that's the direction they ejected.


From: Neil Harrington on

"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009111418315250073-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2009-11-14 17:12:22 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> "Wilba" <usenet(a)CUTTHISimago.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:0088d7a5$0$26867$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...


>>>
>>> But in that photo the driver is on the ejector side.
>>>
>> I don't know how you can tell....different rifles eject the shells to
>> different sides.....As I remember, the M1 (used by US soldiers in WW-II,
>> ejected the shells to the right, but I have seen other guns that ejected
>> them to the left side....
>
> A double barrel shotgun held by a righthander, when opened would eject the
> shells to the right towards the driver on his right.

It would if it had automatic ejectors, but I doubt many (if any)
double-barreled shotguns had those in the days of the stagecoach.


From: Neil Harrington on

"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:arsuf59g4f0vb0a51s03s302u4icjjn1q9(a)4ax.com...
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:12:22 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I don't know how you can tell....different rifles eject the shells to
>>different sides.....As I remember, the M1 (used by US soldiers in WW-II,
>>ejected the shells to the right, but I have seen other guns that ejected
>>them to the left side....
>
> Or even, as in this photo, almost straight up.
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Cowboy-Action-Shooting/120/651842312_45qoh-L.jpg

Yes, but that's a rifle with the extractor on top of the bolt, like
Winchesters (though that one isn't a Winchester). Such rifles always do
eject straight up, or nearly so.


From: Neil Harrington on

"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009111410440716807-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2009-11-14 10:03:45 -0800, "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net>
> said:
>
>>
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>> news:2009111407313133169-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2009-11-14 06:58:27 -0800, George Kerby <ghost_topper(a)hotmail.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/14/09 4:55 AM, in article
>>>> 2009111402550242612-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:53:09 -0800, Savageduck
>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:30:45 -0800, "Wilba" <usenet(a)CUTTHISimago.com.au>
>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wilba said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Years ago I read that left-hand drive is safer overall, because
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> person is startled they tend to raise their non-dominant hand to
>>>>>>>>> protect
>>>>>>>>> their head. If at the time they are steering a car on the left of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> road,
>>>>>>>>> 9 out of 10 will therefore sverve into oncoming traffic.
>>>>>>>>> Apparently
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> effect is statistically significant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems we left our history far behind. Have you ever noticed
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> good old Wells Fargo stage coach driver sat, ...on the right,
>>>>>>>> shotgun
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't see many of them 'round these here parts. :- )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note the driver on the left.
>>>>>>
>>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Concord_stagecoach_1869.pn>>
>>>> g
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, that was the right, the shot gun was on the left.
>>>>> Now I don't know my left from my right!
>>>> The negative was flopped...?
>>>
>>> Aah! The Billy The Kid, left hand gun paradox.
>>
>> Yep. To this day, many (probably most) people still believe that Henry
>> "Billy the Kid" McCarty was left-handed. One of the movies about him,
>> "The
>> Left Handed Gun," has surely contributed to that falsehood.
>
> Well here is a photo of a stagecoach, driven from the right, and with the
> type on the coach correct and not mirror imaged.
> http://www.old-picture.com/old-west/pictures/Stagecoach-Western.jpg
>
> and anothers of what seems to be of great character drivers (on the right)
> http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-oldwest/Deadwood%20stagecoach.jpg
> http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/cerro_gordo2/stage_coach.jpg

Yes, stagecoaches and horse-drawn buggies were always driven from the right.
I've never seen any picture showing otherwise.


From: Neil Harrington on

"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vrudnU2crcFOzWLXnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> wrote in message
> news:-4adndaSj_OZbGPXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>> news:2009111407313133169-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> On 2009-11-14 06:58:27 -0800, George Kerby <ghost_topper(a)hotmail.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/14/09 4:55 AM, in article
>>>> 2009111402550242612-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:53:09 -0800, Savageduck
>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:30:45 -0800, "Wilba" <usenet(a)CUTTHISimago.com.au>
>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wilba said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Years ago I read that left-hand drive is safer overall, because
>>>>>>>>> when a
>>>>>>>>> person is startled they tend to raise their non-dominant hand to
>>>>>>>>> protect
>>>>>>>>> their head. If at the time they are steering a car on the left of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> road,
>>>>>>>>> 9 out of 10 will therefore sverve into oncoming traffic.
>>>>>>>>> Apparently the
>>>>>>>>> effect is statistically significant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems we left our history far behind. Have you ever noticed
>>>>>>>> where the
>>>>>>>> good old Wells Fargo stage coach driver sat, ...on the right,
>>>>>>>> shotgun on
>>>>>>>> the left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't see many of them 'round these here parts. :- )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note the driver on the left.
>>>>>>
>>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Concord_stagecoach_1869.pn>>
>>>> g
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, that was the right, the shot gun was on the left.
>>>>> Now I don't know my left from my right!
>>>> The negative was flopped...?
>>>
>>> Aah! The Billy The Kid, left hand gun paradox.
>>
>> Yep. To this day, many (probably most) people still believe that Henry
>> "Billy the Kid" McCarty was left-handed. One of the movies about him,
>> "The Left Handed Gun," has surely contributed to that falsehood.
>>
>>
> Maybe they printed some of his earlier photos backwards.....:^)

I think that one photo of Billy the Kid reversed from left to right is the
only photo known to exist of him.

But I don't think it was *printed* backwards. In the days of the
daguerreotype, tintype and maybe some other processes, there was no separate
print and negative. The image was fixed on the metal plate itself and that
was the finished picture. Since of course it was on the *front* of the
plate, it was reversed from left to right. Presumably the customer didn't
mind -- it looked just the way he saw himself in a mirror.

So when they copied the old Billy the Kid plate for publication by more
modern methods, they copied it correctly but the picture itself was
reversed. They *should* have flipped the negative when making the print, but
apparently just never thought to do so.