From: Neil Harrington on
Chris H wrote:
> In message <AJKdneSaSKhHIpzWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil
> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes
>> Now there you have a point. On the other hand, a term like
>> "Greenwich time" can have different meanings too depending on where
>> you are. To many it would mean GMT; to some it might mean the time
>> in Greenwich, Connecticut for example.
>
> Only to Americans. As you say it is context. To many Boston is in
> Lincolnshire. However GMT or Greenwich Mean Time has only one meaning.
> Greenwich time could have other connotations. I understand they march
> to a different beat in Greenwich [Village]
>
>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
>>>
>>>> MM/DD/YY is our standard civilian form, but our military has
>>>> used DD/MM/YY for many years.
>>>
>>> It had to as the US military needed to talk to people other than US
>>> civilians.
>>
>> There are other differences. The U.S. military uses the 24-hour
>> clock, while civilians use a 12-hour clock just as I believe they
>> still do in the UK, Canada and other English-speaking places. Why
>> don't the Brits use a 24-hour clock, if consistency with what the
>> rest of the world is doing is so important?
>
> The UK DOES use a 24 hour clock. All time tables, trains ships,
> aricraft etc and many signs for shops and offices are in 24hours.
> Most civilians use 12 hour clocks but since the digital watches and
> mobile phones many use the 24 hour clock.

But you yourself say "Most civilians use 12 hour clocks."

>
>>> As I said it is only a problem where the US wants to talk to
>>> the rest of the world. If having the worlds largest army does not
>>> help then eventually you will have to change.... BTW that is why
>>> the US now uses 9mm rather than .45 and NATO uses 556 rather than
>>> 7.62
>>
>> Not exactly. The U.S. adopted the 9mm Parabellum cartridge because
>> it's half the weight of the .45 Auto, and therefore a soldier can
>> carry twice as many rounds. The decision was to go to a lighter but
>> still powerful cartridge, and the 9mm P was *there* and was
>> commonplace among other militaries; there would have been no point
>> in developing a new cartridge when a perfectly satisfactory one
>> already existed and was in general use.
>
> True. Also the US needed compatibility with the other militaries it
> worked with. IT is the same reason why the UK went ot 556... lighter,
> you can carry more and everyone else uses it. Much easier on
> logistics.
>
>>>> It never has so far, that I know of. You are straining mightily to
>>>> produce an argument for an insupportable position.
>>>
>>> It is the reason why until very recently no one knew what had
>>> happened to Glen Miller.
>>
>> No one really seems to know "what had happened to Glen (sic)
>> Miller," though there are plenty of stories and theories, none of
>> them having anything to do with metric as far as I'm aware.
>
> They do know what happened. The problem was due to standards. The US
> military used a different time to the rest of us (ie the UK which is
> where he flew from) . There was a 1 hour difference. This was not
> realised in the initial investigations.
>
> His aircraft was seen just before it went into the sea but as it was
> not on the route and an hour out it was discarded.
>
> When the hour time difference was taken in to account and the position
> checked it was realised that it was the only possible option. His
> aircraft was spotted by a Canadian in an RAF bomber. The Canadian had
> trained on the rather distinctive American aircraft Glenn miller was
> flying in.
>
> They had gone a little south from their route. The winds at the time
> and in that area accounted for it. They flew into a bomb dump zone
> as some aircraft were returning to the UK. They ditched their bombs
> as required.
>
> As they did so the Canadian gunner saw the aircraft a long way below.
> It was hit by a falling bomb.
>
> Recently last 5 years they did find some wreckage for that type of
> aircraft in the position indicated by the gunner. They did not find
> any serial numbers or bodies.
>
> However Glen millers aircraft was the only one if it's type flying
> over the English Channel that day. The wreckage was found where the
> the gunner said he saw it as his squadron ditched it's bombs. BTW it
> was a clearly marked drop zone on the maps.
>
> Whilst there is no 100% positive proof it is a very strong case and
> all the pieces bar a positive ID fit.

All that is probably true. There are several other stories and theories
about how Glenn Miller died, and no one knows for sure. The version you
describe does seem to be the most likely one. The only correction I would
suggest is that the aircraft supposedly carrying Miller was not "hit by a
falling bomb," but flying at low altitude was damaged and/or sent out of
control by the bomb dump hitting the water close to it. It was a very large
load of bombs, of course.

But what on earth does any of that have to do with metric vs. English units
of measure?


From: Neil Harrington on
Bill Graham wrote:
> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens(a)sum.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:s252g59k0273d9rvd3q5hcndtvntf1uf5o(a)4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:14:46 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8fWdnZe9nMMDDGLXnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:2009111410440716807-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>>> On 2009-11-14 10:03:45 -0800, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>> <secret(a)illumnati.net> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:2009111407313133169-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>>>>>> On 2009-11-14 06:58:27 -0800, George Kerby
>>>>>>> <ghost_topper(a)hotmail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/14/09 4:55 AM, in article
>>>>>>>> 2009111402550242612-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
>>>>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:53:09 -0800, Savageduck
>>>>>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
>>>>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2009-11-14 02:30:45 -0800, "Wilba"
>>>>>>>>>> <usenet(a)CUTTHISimago.com.au> said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wilba said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Years ago I read that left-hand drive is safer overall,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is startled they tend to raise their non-dominant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> protect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their head. If at the time they are steering a car on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> road,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9 out of 10 will therefore sverve into oncoming traffic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect is statistically significant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems we left our history far behind. Have you ever
>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed where
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> good old Wells Fargo stage coach driver sat, ...on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> right, shotgun
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the left.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't see many of them 'round these here parts. :- )
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Note the driver on the left.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Concord_stagecoach_1869.pn>>
>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, that was the right, the shot gun was on the left.
>>>>>>>>> Now I don't know my left from my right!
>>>>>>>> The negative was flopped...?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aah! The Billy The Kid, left hand gun paradox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. To this day, many (probably most) people still believe that
>>>>>> Henry "Billy the Kid" McCarty was left-handed. One of the movies
>>>>>> about him, "The
>>>>>> Left Handed Gun," has surely contributed to that falsehood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well here is a photo of a stagecoach, driven from the right, and
>>>>> with the
>>>>> type on the coach correct and not mirror imaged.
>>>>> http://www.old-picture.com/old-west/pictures/Stagecoach-Western.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> and anothers of what seems to be of great character drivers (on
>>>>> the right)
>>>>> http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-oldwest/Deadwood%20stagecoach.jpg
>>>>> http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/cerro_gordo2/stage_coach.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Yes, stagecoaches and horse-drawn buggies were always driven from
>>>> the right. I've never seen any picture showing otherwise.
>>> Strange....I wonder why their replacement automobiles were
>>> developed to be operated from the left side?
>>
>> I've already told you. It was Napoleon.
>>
> Did Napoleon drive a Citroen or a Peugeot?

Renault Dauphine, very early model with the horse in back. Also they all had
the same electrical system then, unlike the Dauphines they sold over here in
the 1960s or whenever it was. Some of those came with 6-volt systems and
others with 12-volt, apparently according to which they felt like making
that day.

An odd people, the French.


From: Chris H on
In message <d1bc5075-0b95-4aa3-92b9-a99e2782a57b(a)j9g2000prh.googlegroups
..com>, Twibil <nowayjose6(a)gmail.com> writes
>On Nov 16, 9:14�pm, J�rgen Exner <jurge...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't even know why I bother. Celsius replaced centigrade in 1948,
>> because there were too many terminology conficts even at that time. That
>> was over 70 years(!!!) ago.
>
>Er, 1948 was *61* years ago the way the rest of us count things.
>
>Perhaps this explains why your numerical arguments are gaining so
>little traction.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand
binary......
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/



From: Chris H on
In message <2dednX5Gq_8VSJ_WnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil
Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes
>Chris H wrote:
>>> No one really seems to know "what had happened to Glen (sic)
>>> Miller," though there are plenty of stories and theories, none of
>>> them having anything to do with metric as far as I'm aware.
>>
>> They do know what happened. The problem was due to standards. The US
>> military used a different time to the rest of us (ie the UK which is
>> where he flew from) . There was a 1 hour difference. This was not
>> realised in the initial investigations.
>>
>> His aircraft was seen just before it went into the sea but as it was
>> not on the route and an hour out it was discarded.
>>
>> When the hour time difference was taken in to account and the position
>> checked it was realised that it was the only possible option. His
>> aircraft was spotted by a Canadian in an RAF bomber. The Canadian had
>> trained on the rather distinctive American aircraft Glenn miller was
>> flying in.
>>
>> They had gone a little south from their route. The winds at the time
>> and in that area accounted for it. They flew into a bomb dump zone
>> as some aircraft were returning to the UK. They ditched their bombs
>> as required.
>>
>> As they did so the Canadian gunner saw the aircraft a long way below.
>> It was hit by a falling bomb.
>>
>> Recently last 5 years they did find some wreckage for that type of
>> aircraft in the position indicated by the gunner. They did not find
>> any serial numbers or bodies.
>>
>> However Glen millers aircraft was the only one if it's type flying
>> over the English Channel that day. The wreckage was found where the
>> the gunner said he saw it as his squadron ditched it's bombs. BTW it
>> was a clearly marked drop zone on the maps.
>>
>> Whilst there is no 100% positive proof it is a very strong case and
>> all the pieces bar a positive ID fit.
>
>All that is probably true. There are several other stories and theories
>about how Glenn Miller died, and no one knows for sure. The version you
>describe does seem to be the most likely one. The only correction I would
>suggest is that the aircraft supposedly carrying Miller was not "hit by a
>falling bomb," but flying at low altitude was damaged and/or sent out of
>control by the bomb dump hitting the water close to it. It was a very large
>load of bombs, of course.
>
>But what on earth does any of that have to do with metric vs. English units
>of measure?

The US were using a different time system to everyone else they were
working with... When the US uses different standards there will ALWAYS
errors in conversion. This will cost time, money and in some cases
lives. This why the rest of the world is standardising.

In any event the US may not have much choice with many of them in the
future.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/



From: Martin Brown on
Chris H wrote:
> In message <c-CdnXIhyIZ0ypzWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil
> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes
>> "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message
>> news:vhLdubL4YBALFAxO(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
>>> In message <1e00g51800npsuco24380ml1u76jrfa7lf(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper
>>> <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes
>>>> On 15 Nov 2009 06:48:13 GMT, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:03:59 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
>>>>>> <nospamclayton(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> US units are a shambolic mess, inconsistent with each other and almost
>>>>>>> completely irrational for dealing with the real world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet we manage.
>>>>> Only just.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The world that each of us lives in is the "real world". We, who live
>>>>>> in the US, have no problem dealing with our system.
>>>>> "No problem"?? How many yards in a mile? How many feet in a quarter
>>>>> mile? How many teaspoons in a cup? If you don't know those offhand
>>>>> then you obviously have problems dealing with the system.
>>>> If you have a legitimate example of how we have a problem with the
>>>> system, then state it.

>>> Interfacing with the rest of the world.

>> What specifically is the problem?
>
> The US will have to use the International systems when talking to the
> rest of the world. This means doing lots of conversions, holding dual
> stock etc
>
> For example the whole world uses ISO A4 and the US uses US letter.... so
> when the US want to communicate with the rest of the world it has to use
> A4 and for internal use uses Letter.

And certain Mickeysoft Office software resets paper size to US Letter
every time it gets slightly confused which is a real PITA.
>
> Dates are another problem the whole world bar the USA uses DD/MM/YY and
> the US uses MM/DD/YY it causes problems.
>
> It is no conscience to Americans who only interact with other Americans
> but as soon as Americans have to interact externally it will cause
> Americans problems, time and money.

Even then it causes problems since their aerospace engineers can only
think in foot pounds per fortnight and NASA science specifications these
days are all metric. The Mars orbiter in 1999 was lost this way.

http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

Their short measure gallon has caused serious amusement too.

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-gimli-glider

Just as well the pilot was an experienced glider pilot and very cool
after finding he had no engines and a long way to go.

Regards,
Martin Brown