From: Bill Graham on

"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009111721033482327-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2009-11-17 20:41:24 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:8dt6g599nmtt0kjso67q80b9f9s6564dds(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:54:33 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not to disagree, but I am annoyed about the different Ounces.....If you
>>>> are
>>>> calculating the price of Gold, you have to use some other ounce than
>>>> the
>>>> standard one used in grocery stores.....Exactly why they do this is not
>>>> at
>>>> all clear to me, and it is very annoying......
>>>
>>> Precious metals and gems are measured in troy ounces. I don't know
>>> why it confuses you unless you are trying to weigh gold on a kitchen
>>> scale. You don't calculate the price of gold. No calculation is
>>> required since the price per troy ounce is given.
>>>
>>> The only thing that's a bit confusing is that Krugerrands, and some
>>> other one troy ounce of gold coins, actually weigh 1.0909 troy ounces.
>>> The difference is the amount of copper added for hardness.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>>
>> The operative phrase in the above is, "Precious metals and gems are
>> measured in troy ounces." This is what I do not understand, and what is
>> annoying to me. Why the hell would they separate out precious metals and
>> gems from a perfectly good measuring system and give them some special,
>> different measuring system that uses a unit that has the same spelling
>> and pronunciation as their other measuring system? This is both confusing
>> and totally unnecessary. It is the kind of thing that makes me prefer my
>> cats to people......
>
> You will notice they stuck with tradition and troy ounces instead of going
> metric, so at least you don't have to think in grams of gold. As far as
> diamonds are concerned we still have to deal with carats, 1 carat = 200
> mg, or 3.086 grains which is useful for somebody with reloading
> experience.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Savageduck
>
Apparently the grain is common to both systems (Troy and Avoirdupois) so all
I have to do is translate everything into grains and go from there. But the
essential question remains......WHY?

From: tony cooper on
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:03:34 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2009-11-17 20:41:24 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:8dt6g599nmtt0kjso67q80b9f9s6564dds(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:54:33 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not to disagree, but I am annoyed about the different Ounces.....If you are
>>>> calculating the price of Gold, you have to use some other ounce than the
>>>> standard one used in grocery stores.....Exactly why they do this is not at
>>>> all clear to me, and it is very annoying......
>>>
>>> Precious metals and gems are measured in troy ounces. I don't know
>>> why it confuses you unless you are trying to weigh gold on a kitchen
>>> scale. You don't calculate the price of gold. No calculation is
>>> required since the price per troy ounce is given.
>>>
>>> The only thing that's a bit confusing is that Krugerrands, and some
>>> other one troy ounce of gold coins, actually weigh 1.0909 troy ounces.
>>> The difference is the amount of copper added for hardness.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>>
>> The operative phrase in the above is, "Precious metals and gems are
>> measured in troy ounces." This is what I do not understand, and what is
>> annoying to me. Why the hell would they separate out precious metals
>> and gems from a perfectly good measuring system and give them some
>> special, different measuring system that uses a unit that has the same
>> spelling and pronunciation as their other measuring system? This is
>> both confusing and totally unnecessary. It is the kind of thing that
>> makes me prefer my cats to people......
>
>You will notice they stuck with tradition and troy ounces instead of
>going metric, so at least you don't have to think in grams of gold. As
>far as diamonds are concerned we still have to deal with carats, 1
>carat = 200 mg, or 3.086 grains which is useful for somebody with
>reloading experience.

A troy ounce is equal to 20 pennyweights. Don't tell Bill that the
penny in his pocket does not weigh one pennyweight, though. It'll put
him over the edge.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Peter Irwin on
In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
> Not to disagree, but I am annoyed about the different Ounces.....If you are
> calculating the price of Gold, you have to use some other ounce than the
> standard one used in grocery stores.....Exactly why they do this is not at
> all clear to me, and it is very annoying......

Troy weight used to be in common use for other things as late as Tudor
times, but it gradually became customary to use avoirdupois weight for
most items of commerce. For a long time you could use any of a variety
of standards for normal commerce as long as everyone involved understood
and agreed. The sale of silver and gold was regulated before everything
else and by the time that anyone thought it was odd that they were
measured in different units people had become so accustomed to it that
it would have caused more confusion to change.

It was common to specify apothecaries' weight in photographic formulas
well into the 20th century even though the chemicals were sold by
avoirdupois weight.

A drachm or dram in an old photographic formula is the apothecaries'
dram of 60 grains, while a drachm or dram of gunpowder is the
avoirdupois drachm 27.34375 grains (1/16 of an avoirdupois ounce).

Peter.
--
pirwin(a)ktb.net

From: Bill Graham on

"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aj07g51uihifei2e5fu5ul00d368j765j6(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:41:24 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:8dt6g599nmtt0kjso67q80b9f9s6564dds(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:54:33 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Not to disagree, but I am annoyed about the different Ounces.....If you
>>>>are
>>>>calculating the price of Gold, you have to use some other ounce than the
>>>>standard one used in grocery stores.....Exactly why they do this is not
>>>>at
>>>>all clear to me, and it is very annoying......
>>>
>>> Precious metals and gems are measured in troy ounces. I don't know
>>> why it confuses you unless you are trying to weigh gold on a kitchen
>>> scale. You don't calculate the price of gold. No calculation is
>>> required since the price per troy ounce is given.
>>>
>>> The only thing that's a bit confusing is that Krugerrands, and some
>>> other one troy ounce of gold coins, actually weigh 1.0909 troy ounces.
>>> The difference is the amount of copper added for hardness.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>>
>>The operative phrase in the above is, "Precious metals and gems are
>>measured
>>in troy ounces." This is what I do not understand, and what is annoying to
>>me. Why the hell would they separate out precious metals and gems from a
>>perfectly good measuring system and give them some special, different
>>measuring system that uses a unit that has the same spelling and
>>pronunciation as their other measuring system? This is both confusing and
>>totally unnecessary. It is the kind of thing that makes me prefer my cats
>>to
>>people......
>
> Hell, Bill, *I* prefer your cats to you.

You know neither me nor my cats, but we both long for a simpler world.....

From: Peter Irwin on
In rec.photo.equipment.35mm tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> A troy ounce is equal to 20 pennyweights. Don't tell Bill that the
> penny in his pocket does not weigh one pennyweight, though. It'll put
> him over the edge.

A pre 1982 US cent (bronze or brass) weighs 48 grains which is 2dwt.
Recent US cents (copper plated zinc) are 2.5 grammes.

A pennyweight is 1/240 of a troy pound (of 12 troy ounces).
20 dwt = 1 oz(troy)
12 oz (troy) = 1 lb(troy)

English coinage hasn't been full weight since the reign of Edward III.
The 1816 until recent (still used for maundy money) standard has
66 silver pence weighing 1 oz(troy) and 66 shillings weighing 1lb(troy).

Peter.
--
pirwin(a)ktb.net