From: Peter on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UJqdnb3o8bv0qkzWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4bd03b49$0$27756$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:56KdnYCvxPQOPlLWnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4bcf2004$0$27730$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPWdncL2_4aCilLWnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4bccebb7$0$27701$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:2cGdnYKPS8_3VVbWnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am saying, and have said several times before, that the people I
>>>>>>> am talking about are not those who are disabled to the extent that
>>>>>>> they find it impossible to work. I never wanted to cut these people
>>>>>>> off.....As a matter of fact, I would like to cut off the other 98%
>>>>>>> (a good statistic) who have all their fingers and toes and mental
>>>>>>> capabilities and could work, but don't, and give this money to those
>>>>>>> of whom you speak who can't work for one reason or another. The
>>>>>>> people of whom I speak, who could work but don't, ate (and have
>>>>>>> been) subsidized by the state of California all of my life...<BS
>>>>>>> rant snipped>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the reliable source for your statistics is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>> My excellent memory.....Please don't confuse welfare recipients with
>>>>> those on disability.....(although I have issues with the disability
>>>>> funds handling also) My son worked for the state cutting checks for
>>>>> both for around a year, but he worked for Oregon, and not California.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I requested a RELIABLE AND VERIFIABLE source.
>>>> Obviously, all you can do is cite bull turds
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter
>>> What you, "request" and what I am willing to work to deliver are two
>>> very different things......I know what I know. You may do your own
>>> research to come up with a different figure if you desire, but don't
>>> expect me to deliver it to you.
>>
>>
>> When you quote a statistic intellectual honesty demands you have a
>> logical basis for it. Your answer speaks volumes about your intellectual
>> honesty, or lack thereof.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
> No. I have read on several occasions that the number of people collecting
> welfare who have some real disability either mental or physical is between
> 1 and 2 %. I believe that because I have heard/seen it on several
> occasions. I will go with what I believe. If you doubt it, you can do your
> own research, and tell me a different figure. But I am happy with what I
> have learned in the past, and although I can't remember exactly where and
> when I heard it, I do believe it, so I don't believe I have to justify it
> to you. As I say, If you doubt it, then research it and dispute it to
> me.....IOW, screw you. I am not going to do your research for you.


If I bothered, your little green men would not let you believe it.
Or, is it the purple elephants on your mirror in the morning.
I forgot you told me when we met in a bar on Long Island. I remember the
incident. If you want to deny my statement, prove me wrong.

--
Peter

From: Peter on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2bmdnSvNYcIcyUzWnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4bd12947$1$27759$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:6ZKdnQZ4zpgka03WnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4bceed65$1$27721$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:TaydnVY_u-H5B1PWnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Malcolm" <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:833p8cF5onU2(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:hqhncg$75b$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You do seem to generalize from only a few instances to "pasting"
>>>>>>>> your evident low regard for some of those in need to all such. As
>>>>>>>> I have pointed out before, there will always be exceptions who
>>>>>>>> may not be worthy of help - but that BY NO MEANS indicates
>>>>>>>> that most who receive it are not in need of it for basic living
>>>>>>>> resources, and also use it to the best of their abilities. Few get
>>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>>> on welfare...;-)
>>>>>>>> --DR
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey! Show me these, "Most" of whom you speak.....I lived and worked
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> California for over 40 years, I knew many people who were welfare
>>>>>>> puppies. I
>>>>>>> have only known a very few who actually deserved some help from the
>>>>>>> taxpayers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You remind me of an old friend. After living for a year in my home
>>>>>> city he told me was fed up with it and going back to London. The
>>>>>> reason he gave was that it was a dreadful city, full of unemployed
>>>>>> benefit cheats who spent all their time working out how to swindle
>>>>>> more money out of the government. I said I hardly knew any benefit
>>>>>> cheats. He said yes you do, and named two we both knew. I pointed out
>>>>>> to him he had introduced me to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words while he knew loads of benefit cheats, the only ones I
>>>>>> knew people he'd introduced me to. So it was clear that the question
>>>>>> wasn't why was the city full of benefit cheats. The question was why
>>>>>> he knew so many of them :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My own experience tells me that the system is F***** up. The
>>>>>>> statistics of less than 2% I got from reading about the welfare
>>>>>>> system in
>>>>>>> papers and books....I didn't just pull it out of the air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have plenty of papers and books that say the same kind of thing
>>>>>> about the UK. And political parties too. But we also have official
>>>>>> statistics which show that the truth is quite different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do the official statistics match up with these papers and books
>>>>>> you read?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chris Malcolm
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe I already mentioned that fewer than 2% of those on welfare
>>>>> have some disability, either physical or mental. But it doesn't
>>>>> matter.....You are either a believer or you aren't, and there is no
>>>>> way I am going to change your mind. I go by my own knowledge and
>>>>> experience.....I "escaped" from California to Oregon 13 years
>>>>> ago.....Now, I can see Oregon rapidly becoming another California, and
>>>>> the whole country rapidly becoming another California too.....They are
>>>>> talking about adding a Value Added Tax to everything we buy. Our
>>>>> government is desperately grasping at any excuse to get more money
>>>>> from us anyway they can, and adding bureaucracy after bureaucracy to
>>>>> spend more and more of our incomes on more and more government
>>>>> employees.....I see no end to it, and obviously there is nothing I can
>>>>> possibly do about it, so I am just wasting my time trying to warn
>>>>> others about it. At this stage in my life, (I am 74) the best thing I
>>>>> can do is just pursue my hobbies and enjoy what life I have left, and
>>>>> let the next generation lie in whatever bed we have prepared for them.
>>>>> I can only hope that my private papers and letters tell them that I
>>>>> did my best to warn them of what was happening so they don't put too
>>>>> much of the blame on me. Not that I believe it will matter after I am
>>>>> gone anyway. I am a godless person, and do not believe in any
>>>>> afterlife. This country is only about 250 years old.....I doubt
>>>>> seriously if it will last another 100 years. It is obvious to me that
>>>>> human beings are incapable of sustaining a free existence
>>>>> indefinitely.....I guess we are too corrupt, or too lazy, or too
>>>>> uneducated, or all three.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And you have never produced a reliable source for that statistic.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter
>>> Why should I? I believe it, and I vote according to it. If you don't
>>> believe it, then you should find your own statistics, and vote in
>>> accordance with them. first you attack my logic. Then, when I prove my
>>> case logically, you resort to attacking my facts. I am not going to
>>> search for the verification of my facts just for your benefit. My
>>> experience tells me that my facts are good. I have known several dozen
>>> welfare puppies and never one who was disabled in any way, so my
>>> experience tells me that my statistic is as I remember it. If you don't
>>> believe it, then happily give your hard earned money to the government
>>> and tell them to give it away to welfare takers. I can't help it if you
>>> are stupid. It is too late for me to save any money for myself
>>> anyway.....As I say, I haven't had to pay any taxes at all for the last
>>> 5 years or so, and it is obvious to me that I won't have to pay any for
>>> the rest of my life. So it is YOUR money that is being poured into this
>>> black hole, and not mine. Why should I bother to tell you about it?
>>> Obviously, you are too stupid to benefit from my experience, so you ask
>>> me to prove it to you.....Give me a break!
>>
>>
>> Prove your 98% figure. See my prior posting.
>>
>> I think there are little purple people that visit your house when you are
>> sleeping. They disappear when you wake up. While you are sleeping the
>> induce subliminal thoughts of your self importance. It's my recollection.
>> My logic is perfect you cannot attack it. So you will resort to attacking
>> my facts.
>> Prove me wrong.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
> Both my experience and my memory tell me that less than 2% of those on the
> welfare program in the state of California are disabled either mentally or
> physically. If you don't believe me, then you prove me wrong. I believe
> it, and this is why I am against the governments welfare program. It is
> not the case that I have to prove every fact that I know in order to
> believe and advise everyone I talk to. Certainly you don't prove every
> fact that you cite on this or any other forum. Nor do most of those who
> post here. But when I make a mistake, those who disagree with me are very
> quick to jump on it.....So, I am content to wait for that to happen. It is
> not enough for you to not believe my statistic. You must come up with one
> of your own. If I am wrong, and you believe that I am so wrong that my
> point is unbelievable, then YOU prove it so.....Just how many disabled
> people would have to be on welfare before you would consider the program
> acceptable? Or, would you accept the program as it stands even if my
> statistic were correct? I believe the latter is the case, so why should I
> bother with you? I have never found in the past that liberals are
> persuaded by facts, so why should I bother now?


You need not prove every fact. Just the rock on which your argument rests.
If I prove you wrong, will you agree to donate a pre-designated amount to a
non-religious charity I support, such as Second Harvest, or it's equivalent
in your area?


--
Peter

From: Peter on
"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_cGdnRmAKMX-y0zWnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4bd12aaa$0$27752$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:jPadnTBtnezHZU3WnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4bceed65$3$27721$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>
>>>> Can you say derivatives?
>>>> Amazing, you have actually spouted a "liberal" concept. It's your own
>>>> fault your car was stolen. You left the keys in it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter
>>> The derivatives were a spin-off of the basic problem. People who saw it
>>> coming were making money by gambling on it. It's the original problem
>>> that caused the crash. And that was expecting the real estate market to
>>> continue to rise forever. (nothing rises forever) and making risky loans
>>> based on that stupidity. And the democrats are still encouraging the
>>> banks to do that, and backing them up with my tax dollars.......there is
>>> no end to their stupidity.
>> Whoosh~
>>
>> They were selling the derivatives to customers while betting that they
>> would go bad.
>>
> The customers that were buying these derivatives were highly sophisticated
> gamblers. They should have known better. I certainly didn't buy them,
> because I don't play the markets that way. I have my retirement funds
> invested in much more stable instruments. I don't, in general gamble in
> the stock market, although I have been known to take a chance now and
> then, but always on a small scale. (relatively) And, when I do, I am never
> surprised when I lose.


The customers that were buying these mortgage backed insured securities were
pension fund managers who were duped into believing they were buying AA
rated investments. The seller's knew the rating was pure bullshit.

--
Peter

From: Bill Graham on

"Chris Malcolm" <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:833p8cF5onU2(a)mid.individual.net...
> In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hqhncg$75b$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>
>>> You do seem to generalize from only a few instances to "pasting"
>>> your evident low regard for some of those in need to all such. As
>>> I have pointed out before, there will always be exceptions who
>>> may not be worthy of help - but that BY NO MEANS indicates
>>> that most who receive it are not in need of it for basic living
>>> resources, and also use it to the best of their abilities. Few get rich
>>> on welfare...;-)
>>> --DR
>>>
>> Hey! Show me these, "Most" of whom you speak.....I lived and worked in
>> California for over 40 years, I knew many people who were welfare
>> puppies. I
>> have only known a very few who actually deserved some help from the
>> taxpayers.
>
> You remind me of an old friend. After living for a year in my home
> city he told me was fed up with it and going back to London. The
> reason he gave was that it was a dreadful city, full of unemployed
> benefit cheats who spent all their time working out how to swindle
> more money out of the government. I said I hardly knew any benefit
> cheats. He said yes you do, and named two we both knew. I pointed out
> to him he had introduced me to them.
>
> In other words while he knew loads of benefit cheats, the only ones I
> knew people he'd introduced me to. So it was clear that the question
> wasn't why was the city full of benefit cheats. The question was why
> he knew so many of them :-)
>
>> My own experience tells me that the system is F***** up. The
>> statistics of less than 2% I got from reading about the welfare system in
>> papers and books....I didn't just pull it out of the air.
>
> We have plenty of papers and books that say the same kind of thing
> about the UK. And political parties too. But we also have official
> statistics which show that the truth is quite different.
>
> How do the official statistics match up with these papers and books
> you read?
>
> --
> Chris Malcolm

I believe I already mentioned that fewer than 2% of those on welfare have
some disability, either physical or mental. But it doesn't matter.....You
are either a believer or you aren't, and there is no way I am going to
change your mind. I go by my own knowledge and experience.....I "escaped"
from California to Oregon 13 years ago.....Now, I can see Oregon rapidly
becoming another California, and the whole country rapidly becoming another
California too.....They are talking about adding a Value Added Tax to
everything we buy. Our government is desperately grasping at any excuse to
get more money from us anyway they can, and adding bureaucracy after
bureaucracy to spend more and more of our incomes on more and more
government employees.....I see no end to it, and obviously there is nothing
I can possibly do about it, so I am just wasting my time trying to warn
others about it. At this stage in my life, (I am 74) the best thing I can do
is just pursue my hobbies and enjoy what life I have left, and let the next
generation lie in whatever bed we have prepared for them. I can only hope
that my private papers and letters tell them that I did my best to warn them
of what was happening so they don't put too much of the blame on me. Not
that I believe it will matter after I am gone anyway. I am a godless person,
and do not believe in any afterlife. This country is only about 250 years
old.....I doubt seriously if it will last another 100 years. It is obvious
to me that human beings are incapable of sustaining a free existence
indefinitely.....I guess we are too corrupt, or too lazy, or too uneducated,
or all three.

From: Bill Graham on

"Chris Malcolm" <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:833ph4F5onU3(a)mid.individual.net...
> In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hqflub$soh$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:EpSdnde2eMOQ71fWnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> [ The usual stuff about "it's My money, dammit, and no one has
>>> a right to ANY of it" excised...]
>>>
>>>> Yesterday I paid $18 for a 10 inch Pizza.....Eighteen F****** Dollars!!
>>>> I
>>>> don't know how old you are, but my dad only needed 100 grand for a
>>>> comfortable retirement.....I needed a million, and my grandchildren
>>>> will
>>>> need 10 million.....Doesn't that mean anything to you? How much will
>>>> you
>>>> need? and, How are you going to get it?
>>>
>>> Gee, I live comfortably on a taxable income of $1700 a year (no, I
>>> didn't
>>> forget a comma and a zero...;-). I don't crave things I don't need, and
>>> I do prefer that some of "my" money be spent for the public good. BTW,
>>> I do look around for good pizza, and here the best in town (on sale...)
>>> is a large (really...), thick one, made to order with "real" ingredients
>>> and
>>> not made by one of the pizza chains, and it is $14 and it easily
>>> satisfies
>>> two
>>> people for two meals each (with nothing else needed or wanted with
>>> it...).
>>> Quit bellyaching about how hard it is to live on what must be a
>>> considerable
>>> income with SS plus investment income from a million dollars, with no
>>> money to spare for those blankitty-blank welfare slackers. Talk about a
>>> demonstration of what a "Grinch" is - you do seem to define it as
>>> yourself
>>> from your own writings here...
>>> --DR
>>>
>> I don't believe your taxable income is only 1700 a year.....What are you
>> doing with a computer is you make that little? But that's beside the
>> point.
>> Just because you saved so little, why do you think that everyone should
>> save
>> so little.
>
> My taxable pension income isn't much bigger. But that's not because I
> saved so little. I saved a lot more. But by the time I came to draw on
> it a lot of it had turned by mysteriously legal processes into dust,
> ashes, and bankers bonuses.
>
> --
> Chris Malcolm

Well, allow me to suggest that your democratic friends Barney Frank, Chris
Dodd and a few others had something to do with that.....Certainly it wasn't
us greedy Republicans....We never wanted to give home loans to those who
couldn't afford to pay them back.