From: Bill Graham on

"David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hqiir6$fuq$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:WPydne7XcNbOEFHWnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hqhncg$75b$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2cGdnYKPS8_3VVbWnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hqeul0$k5u$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>
>>>>> You were lucky enough to make enough money and wise enough
>>>>> to regularly save enough of it to have what you have now. Most others
>>>>> "live on the edge" not by choice, but because they don't make enough
>>>>> to put away anything. I never grossed more than $22k any year in my
>>>>> life (and often far less), and with business expenses, the "take home"
>>>>> portion was much smaller. But, with care (I've always been good with
>>>>> money), I managed to own outright a decent 1100 sq. ft. house and a
>>>>> cheap-but-OK car, and to amass $96k in investments. I had to stop
>>>>> working about eight years ago when a "difficulty" hit me suddenly out
>>>>> of nowhere. I wanted to continue working, but I couldn't be sure of
>>>>> being able to meet with clients, let alone "perform" on the
>>>>> agreed-upon
>>>>> dates. For the last two jobs I hired back-up photographers to fill in,
>>>>> if needed, which left too little profit to bother with, so I went on
>>>>> SS
>>>>> disability, and a few years later, that converted to a modest SS
>>>>> income,
>>>>> essentially my only source of income (but it is sufficient for my
>>>>> needs).
>>>>> Now, as it happened, I have come to meet many on welfare or
>>>>> disability,
>>>>> and NONE is on it just because they don't want to work. There are
>>>>> some who cannot afford even the inexpensive "Gadabout" transportation
>>>>> service for the elderly and disabled, or modest meals away from where
>>>>> they live (I set up a local "kitty" for $5 to be given such people
>>>>> when
>>>>> needed, since they need the money more than I do), people who are
>>>>> blind and/or have hearing difficulties, people who have mobility
>>>>> problems,
>>>>> people who have various diseases (up to ALS), and people who "just"
>>>>> have bipolar disorder (which can be just as crippling as any physical
>>>>> problem). I have a form of autism, but I have managed with it since I
>>>>> found a way to make money without having a regular job (my last
>>>>> attempt was in 1962, I think...). So, quit with the "stingy" and the
>>>>> "if
>>>>> I could do it, anyone could do it" attitude and look at the conditions
>>>>> many real people live with who need the available extra help, and quit
>>>>> fixating on the few exceptions (and one needs a treat ONCE in a
>>>>> while!),
>>>>> and, BTW, my sister (long story...) uses a cell 'phone 'cuz it's
>>>>> cheaper
>>>>> than any other type if used very sparingly. Please be more generous in
>>>>> your outlook, if not with your money...
>>>>> --DR
>
>>>> I am saying, and have said several times before, that the people I am
>>>> talking about are not those who are disabled to the extent that they
>>>> find it impossible to work. I never wanted to cut these people
>>>> off.....As a matter of fact, I would like to cut off the other 98% (a
>>>> good statistic) who have all their fingers and toes and mental
>>>> capabilities and could work, but don't, and give this money to those of
>>>> whom you speak who can't work for one reason or another. The people of
>>>> whom I speak, who could work but don't, ate (and have been) subsidized
>>>> by the state of California all of my life....I have met many of them,
>>>> and they didn't work because they were better off economically by just
>>>> sitting and letting the California government cut them checks every
>>>> month. There was no "sliding scale" payments that would (or might have)
>>>> given them any incentive to work. I keep telling you this, but you keep
>>>> reverting to my being, "An unfeeling conservative who doesn't
>>>> understand the plight of others who are less fortunate than I." Lets
>>>> take the idiot who lived next door to me in Menlo Park for about 5
>>>> years. He had a dozen children, and he lived in a three bedroom house.
>>>> Je was on disability, because he had a "nervous condition that made him
>>>> uncomfortable when he worked for a living" (No lie) All he did was sit
>>>> home and drink beer.....After they moved out (owing 5 months rent) I
>>>> met the owner's son, who was fixing up the place for re-renting to
>>>> someone else, and needed me to help him install a new toilet. He showed
>>>> me the back bedroom.....It was piled floor to ceiling with empty beer
>>>> cans....This guy lived in a three bedroom house, with a dozen children,
>>>> and he used one of the three bedrooms for a garbage dump for his beer
>>>> cans! Incidentally, while they were living there, his wife had another
>>>> ked, so there were thirteen kids when they skipped out of town.....The
>>>> local police department knew all about this guys kids....They lived
>>>> under a standing order curfew.....If any of them was seen by a Menlo
>>>> Park policeman out after dark, he (or she) would be arrested
>>>> immediately.....they got all their spending money by stealing whatever
>>>> they could get their hands on, and selling it to whomever they could
>>>> for whatever they could get for it.......
>
>>> You do seem to generalize from only a few instances to "pasting"
>>> your evident low regard for some of those in need to all such. As
>>> I have pointed out before, there will always be exceptions who
>>> may not be worthy of help - but that BY NO MEANS indicates
>>> that most who receive it are not in need of it for basic living
>>> resources, and also use it to the best of their abilities. Few get rich
>>> on welfare...;-)
>>> --DR
>
>> Hey! Show me these, "Most" of whom you speak.....I lived and worked in
>> California for over 40 years, I knew many people who were welfare
>> puppies. I have only known a very few who actually deserved some help
>> from the taxpayers. My own experience tells me that the system is F*****
>> up. The statistics of less than 2% I got from reading about the welfare
>> system in papers and books....I didn't just pull it out of the air. Oh
>> sure, there is some excuse they all have for taking the money....They are
>> better off than they would be working, in some cases. But that is a fault
>> of the system. There was no incentive for them to work at all. No sliding
>> scale to give them some help in finding a job that would improve their
>> situation. No end to the help they were getting, so they would have an
>> incentive to learn a new trade and prepare to leave the welfare rolls. It
>> was a clear case of giving them a fish every month instead of teaching
>> them how to fish.....
>
> I included it above, and also in my original post of 4/18 - but if you
> cannot read it for some reason, I quote it below, "Now, as it happened,
> I have come to meet many [as in, a couple of hundred] on welfare or
> disability, and NONE is on it just because they don't want to work.
> There are some who cannot afford even the inexpensive "Gadabout"
> transportation service for the elderly and disabled, or modest meals
> away from where they live (I set up a local "kitty" for $5 to be given
> such people when needed, since they need the money more than I do),
> people who are blind and/or have hearing difficulties, people who have
> mobility problems, people who have various diseases (up to ALS), and
> people who "just" have bipolar disorder (which can be just as crippling
> as any physical problem). I have a form of autism, but I have managed
> with it since I found a way to make money without having a regular job
> (my last attempt was in 1962, I think...). So, quit with the "stingy" and
> the
> "if I could do it, anyone could do it" attitude and look at the conditions
> many real people live with who need the available extra help, and quit
> fixating on the few exceptions (and one needs a treat ONCE in a while!),
> and, BTW, my sister (long story...) uses a cell 'phone 'cuz it's cheaper
> than any other type if used very sparingly. Please be more generous in
> your outlook, if not with your money..." Also, those on disability ARE
> given incentives to work - one can make a rather noticeable amount
> of money for a period of time without losing the disability payments
> so that one can train for and/or try out for work. And, many disabled
> people I know do work. But, I'm now getting tired of reading and
> responding to your repetitious and quite "ungenerous" views - I have
> better things to do...
> --DR
>
>
I am not talking about those on disability......I would like those to get
10x as much money as they do now.....I have been talking about those on
welfare, which is an entirely different thing, and 50 times as numerous,
too.

From: Ray Fischer on
Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>I am curious as to how religion in the US could require someone to
>>>>>"relinquish choice". There is no mechanism by which a citizen may cede
>>>>>his voting rights to another party.
>>>>
>>>> You haven't heard anything of the various cults which demand total
>>>> obedience of followers and use all manner of coercive techniques to
>>>> obtain consent, freedom, and property?
>>>
>>>Those abusers do not make all organized religions bad. It is an example of
>>>what can easily happen if we lose vigilance.
>>
>> Almost all religions rely upon some form of coercion to ensure a steady
>> income. Usually it's by pretending that only the church can "save"
>> you from damnation, or by claiming that people who do not rely upon
>> religion are "immoral" or dangerous.
>
>You know less about religions than you know about business.
>In many religions there is no central authority, to which the money flows.

Who said anything about a "central authority"? I referred to religions.
Is the money that the local priest collects any different from the
money the "central authority" collects?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

From: Ray Fischer on
Pete Stavrakoglou <ntotrr(a)optonline.net> wrote:
>"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> Neither group is guaranteed equal acceptance by society, but both
>> groups should be guaranteed equal rights under the law.
>
>Beyond their control? That is debatable.

Just like being (let's assume) heterosexual is your choice and not
beyond your control. You could choose to be aroused by naked guys if
you wanted to.

Right?

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

From: Bill Graham on

"David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hqika0$i7k$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1ZednQ4Bz7B-GFHWnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hqflub$soh$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:EpSdnde2eMOQ71fWnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
>>> [ The usual stuff about "it's My money, dammit, and no one has
>>> a right to ANY of it" excised...]
>
>>>> Yesterday I paid $18 for a 10 inch Pizza.....Eighteen F****** Dollars!!
>>>> I don't know how old you are, but my dad only needed 100 grand for a
>>>> comfortable retirement.....I needed a million, and my grandchildren
>>>> will need 10 million.....Doesn't that mean anything to you? How much
>>>> will you need? and, How are you going to get it?
>
>>> Gee, I live comfortably on a taxable income of $1700 a year (no, I
>>> didn't
>>> forget a comma and a zero...;-). I don't crave things I don't need, and
>>> I do prefer that some of "my" money be spent for the public good. BTW,
>>> I do look around for good pizza, and here the best in town (on sale...)
>>> is a large (really...), thick one, made to order with "real" ingredients
>>> and
>>> not made by one of the pizza chains, and it is $14 and it easily
>>> satisfies two people for two meals each (with nothing else needed or
>>> wanted with it...). Quit bellyaching about how hard it is to live on
>>> what must be a considerable income with SS plus investment income from a
>>> million dollars, with no money to spare for those blankitty-blank
>>> welfare slackers. Talk about a demonstration of what a "Grinch" is - you
>>> do seem to define it as yourself from your own writings here...
>>> --DR
>
>> I don't believe your taxable income is only 1700 a year.....What are you
>> doing with a computer is you make that little?
>
> That was in fact my taxable income this last year, and I paid exactly
> $60 total in taxes to the Feds and NYS - and, as I said, I live well
> (which for me is likely very different from what you consider important
> for "good living" - but "Grinches" always seem to want more than they
> already have, which I don't).
>
>> But that's beside the point. Just because you saved so little, why do you
>> think that everyone should save so little. Can't you imagine there are
>> people in this world who aspire to be better off than you are, and are
>> willing to save more and/or work harder than you do? Or, like a typical
>> liberal, you think that everyone should live exactly as you do, and by
>> God, we should make a law that forces them to.......
>
> This is nonsense, as you would know if you had read my post in
> which I listed my major assets. I have done very well, given my
> modest lifestyle. I don't care what others want to do (whether wasting
> their lives chasing money, or living life the best they can) - but I've
> noticed
> that it does seem to be the conservatives who are most interested in
> telling
> people how they should live, often while at the same time pratting on
> about how the "gov'mint" is limiting their own rights, and using scare
> words
> like "socialism" (words that don't apply to any real threat) to get people
> to
> follow them. Anyway, enough...
> --DR
>
>
The religious right tells people how to live.....Oddly, so do you liberals.
I do not. I am a libertarian. You and everyone else, can life any damn well
way you please.....Just keep your hands off my money. I worked for it, and I
saved it, and I invested it, and I would like to enjoy it.

From: Chris H on
In message <o23vs5lgm45hch6e30t94j3qqld313kl85(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes
>On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:41:58 -0400, "Peter"
><peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>>As to morons & idiots, should they be sterilized?
>>I say yes, with real safeguards!
>
>Stop attacking Chris H. You're the one that doesn't like intra-group
>conflict.

Tony is the one supporting the pedophiles. Now he has been exposed he
is on the attack.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
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