From: David J. Littleboy on

"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:snd4t5hs0o70au12985asgrfirp5jkol15(a)4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:54:17 -0400, "Peter"
> <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>>The customers that were buying these mortgage backed insured securities
>>were
>>pension fund managers who were duped into believing they were buying AA
>>rated investments. The seller's knew the rating was pure bullshit.
>
> Shouldn't a major pension fund manager be knowledgeable enough about
> what he puts his client's money into avoid scams? Shouldn't he be
> responsible for checking out the claims of the sellers?

Uh, they did. But the ratings agencies were in cahoots with the sellers.
Neither that, nor that the seller was shorting the product, were known to
anyone.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan



From: Ray Fischer on
tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Peter"

>>The customers that were buying these mortgage backed insured securities were
>>pension fund managers who were duped into believing they were buying AA
>>rated investments. The seller's knew the rating was pure bullshit.
>
>Shouldn't a major pension fund manager be knowledgeable enough about
>what he puts his client's money into avoid scams?

"Yes, I was defrauded of billions of dollars, but it's not really the
fault of criminals. It's my fault for thinking that the people paid
to rate securities were actually telling the truth."

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

From: Peter on
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4bd29485$0$1650$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "Peter"
>
>>>The customers that were buying these mortgage backed insured securities
>>>were
>>>pension fund managers who were duped into believing they were buying AA
>>>rated investments. The seller's knew the rating was pure bullshit.
>>
>>Shouldn't a major pension fund manager be knowledgeable enough about
>>what he puts his client's money into avoid scams?
>
> "Yes, I was defrauded of billions of dollars, but it's not really the
> fault of criminals. It's my fault for thinking that the people paid
> to rate securities were actually telling the truth."
>


Your point is?


--
Peter

From: Bill Graham on

"Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bd18a78$0$27723$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:2bmdnSvNYcIcyUzWnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>
>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4bd12947$1$27759$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:6ZKdnQZ4zpgka03WnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4bceed65$1$27721$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:TaydnVY_u-H5B1PWnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Malcolm" <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:833p8cF5onU2(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill Graham <weg9(a)comcast.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)thotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:hqhncg$75b$1(a)ruby.cit.cornell.edu...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You do seem to generalize from only a few instances to "pasting"
>>>>>>>>> your evident low regard for some of those in need to all such. As
>>>>>>>>> I have pointed out before, there will always be exceptions who
>>>>>>>>> may not be worthy of help - but that BY NO MEANS indicates
>>>>>>>>> that most who receive it are not in need of it for basic living
>>>>>>>>> resources, and also use it to the best of their abilities. Few get
>>>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>>>> on welfare...;-)
>>>>>>>>> --DR
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey! Show me these, "Most" of whom you speak.....I lived and worked
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> California for over 40 years, I knew many people who were welfare
>>>>>>>> puppies. I
>>>>>>>> have only known a very few who actually deserved some help from the
>>>>>>>> taxpayers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You remind me of an old friend. After living for a year in my home
>>>>>>> city he told me was fed up with it and going back to London. The
>>>>>>> reason he gave was that it was a dreadful city, full of unemployed
>>>>>>> benefit cheats who spent all their time working out how to swindle
>>>>>>> more money out of the government. I said I hardly knew any benefit
>>>>>>> cheats. He said yes you do, and named two we both knew. I pointed
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> to him he had introduced me to them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words while he knew loads of benefit cheats, the only ones
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> knew people he'd introduced me to. So it was clear that the question
>>>>>>> wasn't why was the city full of benefit cheats. The question was why
>>>>>>> he knew so many of them :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My own experience tells me that the system is F***** up. The
>>>>>>>> statistics of less than 2% I got from reading about the welfare
>>>>>>>> system in
>>>>>>>> papers and books....I didn't just pull it out of the air.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have plenty of papers and books that say the same kind of thing
>>>>>>> about the UK. And political parties too. But we also have official
>>>>>>> statistics which show that the truth is quite different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do the official statistics match up with these papers and books
>>>>>>> you read?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Chris Malcolm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe I already mentioned that fewer than 2% of those on welfare
>>>>>> have some disability, either physical or mental. But it doesn't
>>>>>> matter.....You are either a believer or you aren't, and there is no
>>>>>> way I am going to change your mind. I go by my own knowledge and
>>>>>> experience.....I "escaped" from California to Oregon 13 years
>>>>>> ago.....Now, I can see Oregon rapidly becoming another California,
>>>>>> and the whole country rapidly becoming another California
>>>>>> too.....They are talking about adding a Value Added Tax to everything
>>>>>> we buy. Our government is desperately grasping at any excuse to get
>>>>>> more money from us anyway they can, and adding bureaucracy after
>>>>>> bureaucracy to spend more and more of our incomes on more and more
>>>>>> government employees.....I see no end to it, and obviously there is
>>>>>> nothing I can possibly do about it, so I am just wasting my time
>>>>>> trying to warn others about it. At this stage in my life, (I am 74)
>>>>>> the best thing I can do is just pursue my hobbies and enjoy what life
>>>>>> I have left, and let the next generation lie in whatever bed we have
>>>>>> prepared for them. I can only hope that my private papers and letters
>>>>>> tell them that I did my best to warn them of what was happening so
>>>>>> they don't put too much of the blame on me. Not that I believe it
>>>>>> will matter after I am gone anyway. I am a godless person, and do not
>>>>>> believe in any afterlife. This country is only about 250 years
>>>>>> old.....I doubt seriously if it will last another 100 years. It is
>>>>>> obvious to me that human beings are incapable of sustaining a free
>>>>>> existence indefinitely.....I guess we are too corrupt, or too lazy,
>>>>>> or too uneducated, or all three.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And you have never produced a reliable source for that statistic.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter
>>>> Why should I? I believe it, and I vote according to it. If you don't
>>>> believe it, then you should find your own statistics, and vote in
>>>> accordance with them. first you attack my logic. Then, when I prove my
>>>> case logically, you resort to attacking my facts. I am not going to
>>>> search for the verification of my facts just for your benefit. My
>>>> experience tells me that my facts are good. I have known several dozen
>>>> welfare puppies and never one who was disabled in any way, so my
>>>> experience tells me that my statistic is as I remember it. If you don't
>>>> believe it, then happily give your hard earned money to the government
>>>> and tell them to give it away to welfare takers. I can't help it if you
>>>> are stupid. It is too late for me to save any money for myself
>>>> anyway.....As I say, I haven't had to pay any taxes at all for the last
>>>> 5 years or so, and it is obvious to me that I won't have to pay any for
>>>> the rest of my life. So it is YOUR money that is being poured into this
>>>> black hole, and not mine. Why should I bother to tell you about it?
>>>> Obviously, you are too stupid to benefit from my experience, so you ask
>>>> me to prove it to you.....Give me a break!
>>>
>>>
>>> Prove your 98% figure. See my prior posting.
>>>
>>> I think there are little purple people that visit your house when you
>>> are sleeping. They disappear when you wake up. While you are sleeping
>>> the induce subliminal thoughts of your self importance. It's my
>>> recollection. My logic is perfect you cannot attack it. So you will
>>> resort to attacking my facts.
>>> Prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter
>> Both my experience and my memory tell me that less than 2% of those on
>> the welfare program in the state of California are disabled either
>> mentally or physically. If you don't believe me, then you prove me wrong.
>> I believe it, and this is why I am against the governments welfare
>> program. It is not the case that I have to prove every fact that I know
>> in order to believe and advise everyone I talk to. Certainly you don't
>> prove every fact that you cite on this or any other forum. Nor do most of
>> those who post here. But when I make a mistake, those who disagree with
>> me are very quick to jump on it.....So, I am content to wait for that to
>> happen. It is not enough for you to not believe my statistic. You must
>> come up with one of your own. If I am wrong, and you believe that I am so
>> wrong that my point is unbelievable, then YOU prove it so.....Just how
>> many disabled people would have to be on welfare before you would
>> consider the program acceptable? Or, would you accept the program as it
>> stands even if my statistic were correct? I believe the latter is the
>> case, so why should I bother with you? I have never found in the past
>> that liberals are persuaded by facts, so why should I bother now?
>
>
> You need not prove every fact. Just the rock on which your argument rests.
> If I prove you wrong, will you agree to donate a pre-designated amount to
> a non-religious charity I support, such as Second Harvest, or it's
> equivalent in your area?
>
>
> --
> Peter
Sure, especially if the charity is for animals.....I love and have great
empathy for animals. But there have to be some rules.....I speak of
California State welfare recipients, and not those on disability.

From: Bill Graham on

"Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bd18a78$1$27723$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:_cGdnRmAKMX-y0zWnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>
>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4bd12aaa$0$27752$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:jPadnTBtnezHZU3WnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4bceed65$3$27721$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com...
>>>
>>>>> Can you say derivatives?
>>>>> Amazing, you have actually spouted a "liberal" concept. It's your own
>>>>> fault your car was stolen. You left the keys in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter
>>>> The derivatives were a spin-off of the basic problem. People who saw it
>>>> coming were making money by gambling on it. It's the original problem
>>>> that caused the crash. And that was expecting the real estate market to
>>>> continue to rise forever. (nothing rises forever) and making risky
>>>> loans based on that stupidity. And the democrats are still encouraging
>>>> the banks to do that, and backing them up with my tax
>>>> dollars.......there is no end to their stupidity.
>>> Whoosh~
>>>
>>> They were selling the derivatives to customers while betting that they
>>> would go bad.
>>>
>> The customers that were buying these derivatives were highly
>> sophisticated gamblers. They should have known better. I certainly didn't
>> buy them, because I don't play the markets that way. I have my retirement
>> funds invested in much more stable instruments. I don't, in general
>> gamble in the stock market, although I have been known to take a chance
>> now and then, but always on a small scale. (relatively) And, when I do, I
>> am never surprised when I lose.
>
>
> The customers that were buying these mortgage backed insured securities
> were pension fund managers who were duped into believing they were buying
> AA rated investments. The seller's knew the rating was pure bullshit.
>
> --
> Peter
Who rated them, "AA", and why isn't there a comfortable jail cell for those
who have this power and misuse it? It seems to me that such things would be
easy to regulate, and not something that has to be handled by rocket
scientists. Has it become politicized? does every "regulation" bill carry
some sort of expensive "rider" that gives lots of money to some undeserving
person or organization? Why can't our government handle even the simplest
task without F****** it up?