From: Peter on
"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl(a)gol.com> wrote in message
news:YuadnZa4U4sP1EXWnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> And while Japan has about 1/10 the number of lawyers they need, the US
>>> has ten time what we need: we're both off by an order of magnitude. (I
>>> think the US is erring on the right direction in this, though.)
>>
>> In Japan it is considered a shame to need a lawyer.
>
> Just a quick note: you are badly misinformed about Japan (although it's
> not your fault). In particular, lawyers are highly respected and there's
> no stigma in using a lawyer. You've been fed a bunch of shaggy dog stories
> (like the bit about companies being only "samurai" owned: that's so out of
> date it's painful (and misses a few minor companies like Honda and Sony;
> oops)), so it really isn't your fault. There are lots of such sillinesses
> about Japan flying around. The reality over here is both more interesting
> (since it's real) and less interesting (since it's nowhere near as nuts)
> than the stories.

I understand that professional people are highly respected in Japan. Indeed
in such respoect that it would be rare to question the advice given.
As explained to me, in another context, the shame is that the buisness owner
made the mistake that resulted in the need for an attorney. While most of us
in the West do not think twice about extensively using an attorney, they do
think differently in Japan. Another example of the differences in thought
is: if you ask sombody to do something and they sy they will think about it.
That usually means you want to consider whether you will do it. In Japan the
same response is consider a polite way of saying no.


>
>> Yet they rely heavily on accountants.
>
> And it's a real pain debunking the silliness. For example, what's the per
> capita number of accountants in the industrialized countries? I don't
> know*. Is there any basis to the above claim? Off hand, I'd guess not.
> There's a thing called a "legal scrivner" over here that does a lot of
> what lawyers do in the US (legal scrivners fill out legal forms). They're
> a different thing from accountants. I use an accountant here since I
> started a company (actually, my wife is the legal owner since it would
> have been too much of a pain to tell the IRS about it, as I'd be required
> to), but most Japanese employees don't have to file income tax returns
> (their company does it for them), so I'd think there'd be less use of
> accountants over here.

Interestng. part of what you are stating is partially contrary to my
understanding. I do know that most Japanese companies file tax returns on
behalf of their employees. Here, that is sometimes done with some State tax
returns for certain partnerships. NOt all States permit the procedure and
there is no comparable Federal provision.
What I do not agree with is the concept of a form filer being considered an
attorney. there is a signifigant difference. The form filer may not give
even the most basic legal advice, including which form to file and the
timing of the filing.


>
> *: http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/rule.htm
> "Britain has more qualified accountants per capita than any other
> industrialised nation. Certainly, more than the rest of the European Union
> put together."
> ...
> "Japanese and Germans, with a superior record of economic prosperity and
> family life, appoint engineers and designers to their company boards.
> Britain's major companies appoint accountants who are pre-occupied with
> controlling and cutting costs rather than maximising investment,
> production and value added."
>
> Also:
> http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009/01/27/price-waterhouse-coopers-satyam-and-h-1b/
> "Countries like Japan outperform the US with about 5% as many accountants
> per capita as the US has."
>
> Of course, these themselves may be shaggy dog stories<g>.

Can't say, but I only talk from the little personal knowledge I have.
>

BTW When I made my comment about the Samurai and business, I know that there
are exceptions. What does not appear in the public record is that Soichiro
Honda became accepted by the Samurai class and was treated equally as one of
them. While I have no personal knowledge about Masaru Ibuka and Akio Morita,
I suspect the same.
My knowledge comes from advising certain Japanese businessmen with respect
to their US, international tax matters.


--
Peter

From: Ray Fischer on
Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:4bd87057$0$1624$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>news:4bd7d490$0$1667$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>>>> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl(a)gol.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>> No, it really is quite simple: single-payer (with all the power and
>>>>>> control that implies, and that power and control being used to protect
>>>>>> patients and keep costs in control) and progressive (income-based)
>>>>>> rates
>>>>>> so everyone is covered. Works great. But the political pitfalls bit is
>>>>>> true.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry. We disagree. My doctor friends and former clients will also
>>>>>disagree. Most people here will also disagree.
>>>>
>>>> Why not simply annonuce that everybody agrees with you and skip the
>>>> bother of actually trying to justify your lunacy?
>>>>
>>>>> Third party pay should be
>>>>>truly competitive.
>>>>
>>>> And you "should be" a lot smarter.
>>>>
>>>>> With a single payer, my life is in the hands of some
>>>>>bureaucrat.
>>>>
>>>> Wingnut propaganda. Single-payer systems allow people to choose their
>>>> doctors and allow people to pay for extra services that they want.
>>>>
>>>>> I will not accept that.
>>>>
>>>> Unless that bureaucrat works for a corporation.
>>>>
>>>> The difference is that the government employee ultimately works for
>>>> you while the corporate employee works for the shareholders.
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that type of system works very well
>>>>>in Japan.
>>>>
>>>> It works very well in Canada and in Europe quite well also. In fact
>>>> the US system is the most expensive, by far, of any industrial nation
>>>> but with measurably poorer results.
>>>
>>>Once you start the name calling, the discussion discussion is over.
>>
>> "Declare victory and run away."
>>
>> You lied, and now you're getting pissy about it. A typical wingnut.
>
>If and when you learn to be civil I will discuss.

No you won't. Your claims were right-wing propaganda with no basis in
fact. No you refuse to take responsibility for the lies you post.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

From: Peter on
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4bd8fd11$0$1638$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:

>>If and when you learn to be civil I will discuss.
>
> No you won't. Your claims were right-wing propaganda with no basis in
> fact. No you refuse to take responsibility for the lies you post.
>

Yawn!


--
Peter

From: Ray Fischer on
Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:4bd8fd11$0$1638$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>>>If and when you learn to be civil I will discuss.
>>
>> No you won't. Your claims were right-wing propaganda with no basis in
>> fact. Now you refuse to take responsibility for the lies you post.
>
>Yawn!

Q.E.D.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

From: Peter on
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4bd9bbef$0$1668$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>"Ray Fischer" <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>>news:4bd8fd11$0$1638$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>>> Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>If and when you learn to be civil I will discuss.
>>>
>>> No you won't. Your claims were right-wing propaganda with no basis in
>>> fact. Now you refuse to take responsibility for the lies you post.
>>
>>Yawn!
>
> Q.E.D.
>

Learn a new expresson?

You have posted the same response to others in multiple threads, it is
boring.
Look for the common denominator.

Bye

--
Peter